Religion

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts) Mon Nov 26, 2018, 04:36 PM Nov 2018

There is no evidence for the existence of God. [View all]

A common assertion, and thinly dressed in the language of logic and science, but a meaningless assertion.

When anyone talks of evidence, what exactly do they mean?

If they are looking for evidence, what is the nature of the entity known as God?

What characteristics would God have, and how would they manifest in the observable universe?

And, how does the initial statement fit with the multiverse theory advanced by Stephen Hawking, among others?

In this physical Universe, it's important to observe all that we can, and to measure every bit of knowledge we can glean. Only from the full suite of data available can we hope to ever draw valid, scientific conclusions about the nature of our Universe. Some of those conclusions will have implications that we may not be able to measure: the existence of the multiverse arises from that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2018/07/17/what-is-and-isnt-scientific-about-the-multiverse/#55332da925c4

Accepting for the moment the possibility that this observable universe is only one part of the multiverse, how would the initial assertion that there is no evidence play out?

Let us use a parable to consider the argument:

Think of this universe, the one we live in, as one room in a house. A room with no currently observable doors or windows. A room from which, at this point, we cannot leave.
What could we reasonably say about the other rooms?
What could we say about what exists in the other rooms? Or does not exist?
What could we say about how our universe is affected by other universes?

188 replies

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Highlight:

There is no evidence for the existence of God. [View all] guillaumeb Nov 2018 OP

which god, there are so many to choose from. nt msongs Nov 2018 #1

A thing can be observed by many people. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #2

I will say this, I find most of what you say and do on this website to be sincere. Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #3

Thank you. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #4

Uh, not sure, you have to see the episode, I dont want to do spoilers. Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #7

Feel free to be a spoiler. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #8

It involves aliens like everything on that show, I am finding out. Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #10

Trump is an alien. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #12

Giving him WAY too much credit Eliot Rosewater Nov 2018 #14

There is no evidence for the existence of God. Ron Obvious Nov 2018 #5

It is an assertion. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #6

If God is unprovable, can unprovable things "exist"? DetlefK Nov 2018 #16

Unprovable. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #19

Have any experiment in mind to test the hypothesis? exboyfil Nov 2018 #51

None. And that is why I have faith. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #70

Prove that I don't have the power to teleport from one John Fante Nov 2018 #60

Another assertion. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #104

And improvable, no? John Fante Nov 2018 #105

By me. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #106

lol if it's unprovable qazplm135 Nov 2018 #102

Your questions are valid and rational Hav Nov 2018 #9

Theists rely on faith. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #11

Why is this such a big.deal? Cary Nov 2018 #27

There's everything wrong with "faith" in unverifiable nonsense Red Raider 85 Nov 2018 #34

Like what? Cary Nov 2018 #35

Because it leads you to nowhere Hav Nov 2018 #37

I will have to think on that Cary Nov 2018 #38

What is truth? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #66

That is a good point Cary Nov 2018 #74

Agreed. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #78

I think some are just plain old dishonest Cary Nov 2018 #82

No, not only what is provable by us Hav Nov 2018 #86

And the scientific approach, what you describe, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #89

Oh, DU has been a shelter since the dark Bush years for me Hav Nov 2018 #93

Simply my comment about how things are ometimes framed. eom guillaumeb Nov 2018 #65

You have stated a truth. MineralMan Nov 2018 #13

Read the post. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #17

Why did you assume I did not. MineralMan Nov 2018 #22

Spot on. The burden of proof is in the god proponent. Red Raider 85 Nov 2018 #32

Assuming and accepting that you read the post, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #63

Did I? MineralMan Nov 2018 #68

Clearly. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #73

Challenge accepted. That's a fairly simple philosophical riddle. DetlefK Nov 2018 #15

You can see nothing in other universes. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #18

We can define what would constitute evidence of other universes, but not of God marylandblue Nov 2018 #40

All proofs for/against God are entirely logical/philosophical/mathematical. DetlefK Nov 2018 #41

But if we assume that the Creator is everywhere in creation, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #69

If you don't have definition of the Creator marylandblue Nov 2018 #87

My guess is that the Creator embodies energy. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #90

This violates your assumption that we don't know what to look for marylandblue Nov 2018 #91

No, it is my guess. Defined as such. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #92

It's a guess, but what did you actually guess? marylandblue Nov 2018 #96

If the Creator is sentient energy, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #98

We'd look for evidence of sentience marylandblue Nov 2018 #101

"So where does one look?" trotsky Nov 2018 #120

No, I am asking a question. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #122

Then who can define it? DetlefK Nov 2018 #42

I accepted the premise in the OP for the sake of argument marylandblue Nov 2018 #44

Maybe it also it's because it has a lot to do with what's inside gtar100 Nov 2018 #20

There is that factor. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #21

Your "view" has no evidence to support it. MineralMan Nov 2018 #24

Given that I have stated this many times before, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #64

I respond as I choose. MineralMan Nov 2018 #67

Why do you feel the need to state anything many times? Mariana Nov 2018 #81

Which avoids the point of why the post was made. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #83

Donald Trump is God. Prove he is not. MineralMan Nov 2018 #23

It is up to the god botherers to both define Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #25

The idea of the multiverse is a hypothesis. MineralMan Nov 2018 #26

It's like he didn't read the article at all Lordquinton Nov 2018 #138

The concept isn't too hard to visualize. MineralMan Nov 2018 #142

Given that the article specifically addresses his comment Lordquinton Nov 2018 #149

The claims of almost all believers edhopper Nov 2018 #28

I believe in the Creator. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #71

for which there is no evidence edhopper Nov 2018 #75

Belief. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #79

And do you admit that edhopper Nov 2018 #85

I admit that billions have faith in unprovable things. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #88

All those old Gods edhopper Nov 2018 #111

Many things exist. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #117

Which has nothing to do with my question. edhopper Nov 2018 #129

Gil has already explained Mariana Nov 2018 #84

As has been said on this thread, a God is open to many interpretations. Doodley Nov 2018 #29

The problem comes when a book Thunderbeast Nov 2018 #30

Belief in gods, or any belief not based on evidence, is irrational. Red Raider 85 Nov 2018 #31

Totally agree...nt uriel1972 Nov 2018 #33

I believe I'll have another drink Major Nikon Nov 2018 #52

If you leave God undefined, then it is in the same category as covfefe. marylandblue Nov 2018 #36

No one can show evidence for the existance of god at this time. Eko Nov 2018 #39

Define god. Act_of_Reparation Nov 2018 #43

The op won't do that. Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #55

I think it's interesting that one can say the same thing about dark matter ck4829 Nov 2018 #45

There is evidence for dark matter because we can measure it's mass marylandblue Nov 2018 #47

There is a lot of evidence edhopper Nov 2018 #49

But it's the same see because it is entirely Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #56

It's like believing in thisng we can't see edhopper Nov 2018 #61

Abour your "parable" MineralMan Nov 2018 #46

The multi-verse hypothesis is just one Voltaire2 Nov 2018 #57

Well, the woo-sters, as usual, are distorting the little we MineralMan Nov 2018 #58

Horrible analogy. trotsky Nov 2018 #48

Well, it wasn't all that well thought-out. MineralMan Nov 2018 #50

We can speculate on what might be in other universes, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #72

Mathematics isn't entirely speculation, you know. trotsky Nov 2018 #94

What part of the concept of faith is unclear? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #95

What makes you call yourself a Christian? n/t trotsky Nov 2018 #97

What makes you call yourself an atheist? eom guillaumeb Nov 2018 #99

Nope, not playing your game. Answer my question first. trotsky Nov 2018 #100

I already answered this one. More than once. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #103

But that's not exclusively the "message of Jesus." trotsky Nov 2018 #110

OK. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #116

So? trotsky Nov 2018 #118

Just OK. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #119

I asked you to state what makes you a Christian. YOU defined it, remember? trotsky Nov 2018 #121

Hello, definer. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #123

So you're giving up it seems. trotsky Nov 2018 #124

And now you revert to another logical fallacy, a much used one. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #125

Further self-humiliation, g? An interesting tactic. trotsky Nov 2018 #128

Makes about as much sense as equating creationism to evolution Major Nikon Nov 2018 #53

Well, he got the thread title right, anyhow. MineralMan Nov 2018 #59

Well, let's just agree that faith does not equal evidence. KPN Nov 2018 #54

we don't ask for 'Perfect' evidence... uriel1972 Nov 2018 #62

We can not see where our Universe ends at140 Nov 2018 #76

You are assuming that your perception is a reality. You say there are zillions of suns. Saying so Doodley Nov 2018 #107

I have seen many maps of galaxies and some are so far away, at140 Nov 2018 #108

How do you know they are real maps, and not simply part of a world that only exists in mind? Doodley Nov 2018 #112

guill, I agree with the title. saidsimplesimon Nov 2018 #77

Prove this position: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #80

There is no evidence for the existence of leprechauns. trotsky Nov 2018 #113

The position is true by inspection(as my math teachers used to call it) marylandblue Nov 2018 #114

It is not incumbent on me to prove god doesn't exist. bitterross Nov 2018 #109

Not the point. eom guillaumeb Nov 2018 #115

There is plenty of evidence that god does not exist, however. malchickiwick Nov 2018 #126

I think. Snackshack Nov 2018 #127

If he exists explain Dick Cheney. gibraltar72 Nov 2018 #130

Argument from Ignorance LongtimeAZDem Nov 2018 #131

That razor cuts both ways. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #133

And so you cannot assume any evidence beyond that (nt) LongtimeAZDem Nov 2018 #143

Or assume that because there is no evidence here, there is no evidence. eom guillaumeb Nov 2018 #145

One can assume that until the existence of other rooms is demonstrated. (nt) LongtimeAZDem Nov 2018 #146

Or.... one can assume that the search is not conclusive of anything. eom guillaumeb Nov 2018 #147

You're making invisible unicorn arguments, and wasting my time. (nt) LongtimeAZDem Nov 2018 #148

As is usually the case, you billh58 Nov 2018 #132

A welcome addition to this conversation. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #134

Thanks for the response, and just one more thing: billh58 Nov 2018 #135

And many intermediaries are happy to side with the rulign class guillaumeb Nov 2018 #136

As it always was... n/t billh58 Nov 2018 #137

What a train wreck Lordquinton Nov 2018 #139

Yes, your response was. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #140

I backed up my claims Lordquinton Nov 2018 #141

No, you interpreted speculation as proof of your position. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #144

Yes, I missed the link I quoted from Lordquinton Nov 2018 #150

Your previous accusation: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #151

Need some more straw? Lordquinton Nov 2018 #152

No, you supplied plenty of it. And now you are making up an implication and saying that I did it. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #153

Speaking of lieing, I never said you did Lordquinton Nov 2018 #154

Your own words: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #155

Why are you not responding to any of the content in my posts? Lordquinton Nov 2018 #156

Just admit that you called me a liar, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #157

So you can't respond to my actual comments? Lordquinton Nov 2018 #158

You attacked me, and called me a liar and dishonest. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #159

Never called you a liar Lordquinton Nov 2018 #160

Unfortunately for your claim, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #162

I stand by my comment Lordquinton Nov 2018 #178

Yes, okay. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #183

Imputing a motive is something you do and justify all the time marylandblue Nov 2018 #161

And the poster is still denying what we can all read. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #163

Lalalala - Can't hear you... MineralMan Nov 2018 #164

If someone called me a liar, I would demonstrate I am telling truth marylandblue Nov 2018 #165

The accusation stands, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #166

I did. I don't agree with you. marylandblue Nov 2018 #167

Specifically why? guillaumeb Nov 2018 #168

The connection between the article and your premise is unclear marylandblue Nov 2018 #169

The accusation: guillaumeb Nov 2018 #170

Correct, it is an accusation. And this is a Trumpian response. marylandblue Nov 2018 #171

Attempted to deceive is synonymous with lying. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #172

Are you OK, Guy? MineralMan Nov 2018 #173

Thank you for asking. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #174

Sorry. I call them as I see them. Just like you do. marylandblue Nov 2018 #181

Well, technically, he is correct. marylandblue Nov 2018 #175

I disagree. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #176

Nobody is 100% honest. Nobody. marylandblue Nov 2018 #179

Agreed. guillaumeb Nov 2018 #182

Yes it does help to avoid some things marylandblue Nov 2018 #186

Hey, so I never called you a liar Lordquinton Nov 2018 #185

guill, like myself, saidsimplesimon Nov 2018 #177

Interesting idea. I have a close relative with Asperger's. marylandblue Nov 2018 #188

As an observer, I can say that all the dialogue back and forth is quite interesting! FM123 Nov 2018 #180

Much fire and fury, guillaumeb Nov 2018 #184

That's normal, people don't change their minds easily marylandblue Nov 2018 #187