Religion

Voltaire2

(14,635 posts)

85. It is a dodge for exactly the reasons I stated.

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 03:54 PM

Dec 2018

The “historical jesus” has next to nothing to do with the entity described in the gospels. Theists frequently use the plausibliity of a historical jesus to add credence to the absurd claims of their holy texts.

Yes there are people who don’t do that, but they are generally the exception.

Aside from that the claims for an historical jesus are weak. Which person was he exactly? Well we don’t know. There is zero physical evidence. There are no contemporary texts that refer to this person. There are no other documents that identify this person or the events of his life.

Compare the evidence for an historical jesus to the evidence for an historical socrates and jesus comes up short.

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So, Was Jesus Just a Metaphor? [View all] MineralMan Dec 2018 OP

Just another hero myth archetype JenniferJuniper Dec 2018 #1

So Joseph Campbell would say, I'm sure. MineralMan Dec 2018 #10

I love the Bill Moyers discussion with Joseph Campbell. in2herbs Dec 2018 #26

That can be extended to Moses, Mohammed, Buddha, etc still_one Dec 2018 #2

That's the question, isn't it? MineralMan Dec 2018 #8

For some answers archeology still_one Dec 2018 #23

I'm pretty sure The Buddha was a real historical person. rickford66 Dec 2018 #79

which one? still_one Dec 2018 #82

The bible was written by men.... Catamount Dec 2018 #3

Oh, I've made up my mind. MineralMan Dec 2018 #9

And men (perhaps a few women) that saw some light and then saw another erronis Dec 2018 #29

Jonah? Religions are akin to folklore where stories are retold to make points... TreasonousBastard Dec 2018 #4

Paul Bunyan? MineralMan Dec 2018 #6

Oooh. I'd forgotten about Paul Bunyan, the giant among men - obviously a GOD. erronis Dec 2018 #30

Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Strong takes that position marylandblue Dec 2018 #5

Yes, he does. MineralMan Dec 2018 #7

That's why religion is more than just a bunch of beliefs and metaphors marylandblue Dec 2018 #13

Yah, well, ok. MineralMan Dec 2018 #14

Not impressed, huh? Maybe I'll put that idea an in an OP someday. marylandblue Dec 2018 #15

Please do. MineralMan Dec 2018 #19

But religion is also used to enforce conformity and penalize heretics - shunning, murder, etc. erronis Dec 2018 #33

Didn't say it was "just" shared meaning marylandblue Dec 2018 #41

I really appreciate your sincerity. Thanks for hanging in there with a bunch of contrarians! erronis Dec 2018 #45

Thanks. You're welcome. Cheers. marylandblue Dec 2018 #53

We tried to have that discussion once Lordquinton Dec 2018 #87

Separating what should be taken metaphorically from what what should be taken literally is easy The Genealogist Dec 2018 #11

I Can't buy that. MineralMan Dec 2018 #12

Which part? The Genealogist Dec 2018 #16

Any of it. MineralMan Dec 2018 #17

Some events in the Bible are historically confirmed marylandblue Dec 2018 #20

OK. That does not mean the rest is true. MineralMan Dec 2018 #24

Yes, that's true, but now that I think about it, metaphor is the wrong description marylandblue Dec 2018 #42

Israelite King Omri is mentioned in the Mesha Stele The Genealogist Dec 2018 #28

Historically confirmed events are not proof of supernatural causations Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #62

I didn't say they were. marylandblue Dec 2018 #64

Then what's the point of bringing them up? Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #65

Because historians use the Bible as an historical source marylandblue Dec 2018 #66

"Biblical historians" do that. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #74

ok, whatever. marylandblue Dec 2018 #75

There is a much broader area of history Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #86

I am still not really sure what your point is. marylandblue Dec 2018 #89

That is my conclusion as well. The Genealogist Dec 2018 #21

Expressing your personal opinion as a fact? guillaumeb Dec 2018 #31

Try telling that to those that are being burnt at a stake or having their heads lopped off. erronis Dec 2018 #35

I'd love how someone could twist "beat your slave, but don't kill them" into being metaphorical. Oneironaut Dec 2018 #40

There are some who try to parse the wheat from the chaff Major Nikon Dec 2018 #18

Yes. Jefferson extracted the common moral MineralMan Dec 2018 #22

I think I heard somewhere There was a big flood at the time of the Noah myth. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #25

Um. No. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #43

? LakeArenal Dec 2018 #44

Where have I been? saidsimplesimon Dec 2018 #27

There are few references to Jesus in pagan writings Raven123 Dec 2018 #32

And those sources you reference substantiated their writings? erronis Dec 2018 #39

All of that was written later. MineralMan Dec 2018 #52

More research on Flavius Josephus should make you question him as a resource Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #60

Interesting point. Who were the chroniclers? Raven123 Dec 2018 #67

I can give a couple Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #70

I am aware of Philo, but not Gallio Raven123 Dec 2018 #71

Josephus was Jewish. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #69

Point taken. However inthis minds of some "was" is the operative. They viewed him as a traitor. Raven123 Dec 2018 #72

Probably not, but why do you care??? Let people believe what they want. Dream Girl Dec 2018 #34

Why do you ask? MineralMan Dec 2018 #37

This is the Religion Group. We discuss religion here. Mariana Dec 2018 #48

Subtext is if you believe in God you are really not too bright... Dream Girl Dec 2018 #49

I don't think that's true. Mariana Dec 2018 #50

No subtext. It's a valid question. MineralMan Dec 2018 #51

Well there is a correlation. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #54

There was a flood... Mike Nelson Dec 2018 #36

There are many myths. MineralMan Dec 2018 #38

Jesus is probably like Robin Hood; there was probably at least one real person at the core LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #46

Could be. MineralMan Dec 2018 #47

In what sense? Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #55

True. Robin Hood was just a guy who MineralMan Dec 2018 #56

There's plenty of archeological evidence of zombie prevention methods Major Nikon Dec 2018 #57

There was probably a preacher named Jesus or a variant who gained some notoriety; that story LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #58

There were lots of "preachers". Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #59

The historical core would have no miraculous elements marylandblue Dec 2018 #63

Yes the "historical jesus" dodge substitutes Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #73

I am not sure why this is a dodge marylandblue Dec 2018 #76

It is a dodge for exactly the reasons I stated. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #85

Socrates is actually pretty well documented as ancient people go marylandblue Dec 2018 #88

Some may be true but those events have nothing to do with the supernatural Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #61

I'm glad you hang out with us and ask the hard questions, littlemissmartypants Dec 2018 #68

Hey, thanks! MineralMan Dec 2018 #83

No. Jesus is an exclamation of shock. Kablooie Dec 2018 #77

All communication is metaphorical Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #78

"To be truthful means to employ the usual metaphors." - Nietzsche Jim__ Dec 2018 #81

💡 underpants Dec 2018 #80

That switch cover! Occasionally one shows up on eBay. MineralMan Dec 2018 #84