Religion
In reply to the discussion: Imagine a world without faith or religion. [View all]gtar100
(4,192 posts)As in, a world without humans and religions or discernible deities. But then, we don't acknowledge the internal experience of other animals or insects or plants other than their biological imperatives. With few exceptions, most people are content to observe behavior and environmental effects of other species rather than actually communicate with them - something considered laughable in these times. So if you can imagine people interacting as animals do with an overlay of our economics and our distinctly human social interactions, that might be a model. But no guarantee of peace and harmony.
It seems like a world without religion or faith is imaginable for individuals - there's apparently no survival requirement to practice a religion or believe in deities, like the need for food, water, activity and sleep. Even among groups of friends, religion and a professed faith is not necessary, just shared values which don't have to include religion or gods. But it gets more complicated with larger groups like tribes and communities. How can groups like this survive if there is not an acknowledgement and and some form of celebration of the traditions that identify a place for the the group and its people in the wider context of reality? The only time I see people making attempts at trying to live without religion or faith is happening in our modern world - either by force of state (China, as an example... but that's more like suppression than absence of faith and religion) or through the influences of subcultures that embrace beliefs such as materialism that assert that life is meaningless, purposeless and doomed to entropy. The rise of materialism has not reduced war and violence but on the contrary may have only made us better at the effectiveness of our destructive capacity.
So what is needed to make the people of Utopia cohesive over generations, avoid war and live peacefully? They are going to have to share a common set of values in order to live and work together. Sooner or later it's going to come down to the questions of how did we get here, why do we exist, what is our purpose and all the things that religions address. Let's say they all agree on the premise that deities do not exist and they embrace the materialistic view in which life happened by "happy chemical accident", would they still not have to have rules like don't steal, don't kill, don't be a jerk... that sort of thing, to get along? Under what premise? Why? Survival of the species? Why? It's all meaningless and purposeless, right? The species will survive; that's not a concern for the individual and there are no second chances for the individual - that's an inevitable conclusion under materialism. So personal ethics can stop one from hurting others in the pursuit of personal gain without the need for the interjection of a deity... okay. But as soon as you come to an agreement with another on the ethical behaviors desired in one's Utopia, those ethics are no longer "personal". And philosophers will inevitably ask, what is the origin of the ethics we have embraced. Call it God, don't call it God; but from whence arose the shared, non-personal sense of ethics? Another biological imperative? Brain chemistry? Those are hardly complete answers.
I can see it working in small groups but not larger groups. Maybe somebody else can imagine a world without religion and faith but I just don't see it but I do see a lot of complications happening with the current attempt at it. Don't confuse this with an attempt to excuse religious beliefs and practices that hurt and devalue people. People abuse religions for their own personal gain precisely because religion itself is a power within interrelated groups of people and people are vying for that power. But religions do not manifest the same way everywhere. Cultures of indigenous people have survived thousands of years because of the common thread religious practices have had in tying their generations together into a cohesive story line that provides a sense of place, meaning and purpose for themselves. Economics and basic survival requirements just don't seem to be enough to hold people together for any serious length of time. I think it requires a common philosophy and, more importantly, common practices we can rightfully define as religious to bind people together into a culture.