Religion

NeoGreen

(4,033 posts)

73. Pendrench...

Wed Jun 26, 2019, 10:12 AM

Jun 2019

... my response(s):

in your opinion, if an individual (like myself) who claims to be a person of faith is self-delusional in this regard, would it be possible (or even likely) for me to escape the "faith trap" on my own if I see that faith as being beneficial?

I really can't speculate on the probability or even the likelihood of your specific ability to escape, other than to say it is possible and that the probability isn't fixed across time.

During his life, my father was a very devout Catholic, and that faith not only gave him great comfort, but (in my opinion) it also helped shape his worldview and the way he treated others - with great compassion and love. My mother also shared this faith, and that faith gave her great comfort during the time he was dying - not to mention the words of support and comfort the priest provided at his funeral.

To that end, not that I think that you or anyone else in this group is trying to dissuade me from my own personal beliefs/faith, but for the sake of discussion, do you think faith is always a trap, when (for some) it may be the only available means of solace, support, and comfort?

No doubt the belief can be a catalyst for comfort and in some cases compassion, regardless of the 'flavor'. However, the level(s) of comfort/solace, no matter how great, do not provide one iota toward the truth of the base beliefs. Transubstantiation is not a real thing. It does not comport with the real world. Creationism is not a real thing. Resurrection is not a real thing. The End-Of-Days in not a real thing.

These beliefs are incompatible with the desire to create and maintain a durable society. Managing the future of society through the 'lens' of religious philosophies and 'truths' is illegitimate and dangerous.

Plus, there are better alternatives in the world that can be catalysis for comfort and compassion, and which have the added benefit of not requiring a belief in magic. It is up to you to seek them out and find them.

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Hypothesis: faith, is a sub-set version of Self-Deception... [View all] NeoGreen Jun 2019 OP

No known cure Cartoonist Jun 2019 #1

I think reason cures faith FiveGoodMen Jun 2019 #42

Maybe a few simple reasons? Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #60

Reason has to be taught. trev Jul 2019 #119

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. FiveGoodMen Jul 2019 #120

That's the one. Thanks, trev Jul 2019 #121

I really can't think of a bigger waste of time SCantiGOP Jun 2019 #2

Yet here you are. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #3

Yep, no matter where you go SCantiGOP Jun 2019 #4

That's two posts now Cartoonist Jun 2019 #6

and this is three SCantiGOP Jun 2019 #8

Which wouldn't have existed without yours in the first place. trotsky Jun 2019 #9

Amazing how the same few "just happen" to follow the same pattern. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #13

And there you go with your group smears. trotsky Jun 2019 #15

So my notice of small group tactics is a smear? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #17

Uh huh. n/t trotsky Jun 2019 #19

I thought you were a fan of the scientific method. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #20

Only when used properly. Thus, I'm not a fan of what you do. trotsky Jun 2019 #39

And you are the determiner? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #40

Good. Glad you understand you're not using the scientific method. n/t trotsky Jun 2019 #41

It's almost like some of us know how to work an RSS feed. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #47

It is "amost" something. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #51

I'm sorry that the internet is a scary place for you. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #71

I am sorry that dissent is a scary thing for you. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #76

Please say that to yourself while looking at the mirror. MineralMan Jun 2019 #77

Why? Did it work for you? eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #81

No need. I didn't say it in the first place. MineralMan Jun 2019 #83

Wait, am I allowed to respond to you now, without frightening you with 'harmony'? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #85

As a musician, I like harmony, and dissonance. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #88

This won't surprise you, but I am skeptical. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #89

Does that make you an agnostic? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #115

Skeptic. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #116

Well said. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #117

Oh, I'll bet you can, actually. MineralMan Jun 2019 #7

As are you. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #14

Yes, but I'm not claiming that the thread is useless. MineralMan Jun 2019 #24

I'm not all that big on analogies, but here is one that isn't bad Major Nikon Jun 2019 #5

Time to pull out this classic Sam Harris quote about Dubya again. trotsky Jun 2019 #10

Even scarier it wouldn't precipitate a national emergency Major Nikon Jun 2019 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #54

With "GOP" starting the comments ... Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #59

Had to stop reading to lol after the first 7.5 words... Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #86

Laughable. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #12

You should really try expanding your vocabulary... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #18

And you might try actual discussion instead of name calling. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #21

And pray tell, what name did I call... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #22

Did you read your own post? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #23

I wrote it, and so my question still stands... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #27

Your attempt at analysis is noted. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #29

I asked for discussion, and all I am getting from you is deflection... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #32

I gave a answer. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #33

You did not give an answer. Mariana Jun 2019 #38

And take note, the OP doesn't 'validate' my view... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #34

I took notice of your method. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #35

To post a hypothesis and ask for discussion on the points presented?... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #36

Someone is working hard on their victimization Major Nikon Jun 2019 #45

So very clever. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #50

That poster did not call you any name. MineralMan Jun 2019 #25

Illogical. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #26

Well, you're here in the Religion Group this afternoon, MineralMan Jun 2019 #28

Thank you for asking so politely. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #30

Yes, and I have replied in that thread, as well, as is my wont. MineralMan Jun 2019 #31

Why did you post his term, this particular word? NeoGreen Jun 2019 #70

I'll repeat the question: where's the name-calling? trotsky Jun 2019 #44

Read the post. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #49

Can I play? Cartoonist Jun 2019 #53

The OP is important, if problematic Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #61

True. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #75

Wrong motivation Cartoonist Jun 2019 #84

I did. Where's the name-calling? n/t trotsky Jun 2019 #67

Fucking whataboutism. n/t trotsky Jun 2019 #43

Using those exact words no less Major Nikon Jun 2019 #46

I understand that you believe this to be true. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #48

Dude, you LITERALLY said "what about." trotsky Jun 2019 #66

Yeah, what about that? MineralMan Jun 2019 #82

We can prove physical miracles don't arrive ... Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #63

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #79

You mean edhopper Jun 2019 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Cartoonist Jun 2019 #16

No doubt imo. elleng Jun 2019 #37

For Lord's sake, people! Let's start over. The original posts comments on faith sound very Karadeniz Jun 2019 #52

Faith is a shield Cartoonist Jun 2019 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jun 2019 #56

Faith as Logic is somewhat interesting Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #62

Guil might like this Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #65

Hi NeoGreen - As someone who believes in god (I'm Catholic) I find this discussion very Pendrench Jun 2019 #58

The Bible warned that many believers are "deceived" by "false" Christianity Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #64

Hi Bretton - thank you for responding to my post. Pendrench Jun 2019 #68

Depends; from case to case. Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #78

Hi Bretton - sorry for the delayed response...I was away from my computer for awhile. Pendrench Jun 2019 #87

If you learned some tolerance from your religion, that seems helpful Bretton Garcia Jun 2019 #90

Hi Bretton - Thank you again for your thoughtful reply. Pendrench Jun 2019 #92

So the ideas you place faith onto aren't worthy of challenge and criticism? Major Nikon Jun 2019 #93

Hi Major Nikon - thank you for responding to my post. Pendrench Jun 2019 #94

It still sounds as if you think belief itself is beyond criticism Major Nikon Jun 2019 #95

Hi Major Nikon - Than you again for your thoughtful reply. Pendrench Jun 2019 #96

What is religion without accepting certain things as incontrovertible? Major Nikon Jun 2019 #97

Hi Major Nikon - Thank you again for your reply. Pendrench Jun 2019 #98

Your question was, if I understand it correctly... Major Nikon Jun 2019 #99

Hi Major Nikon - Yes - you understood my question correctly, and I appreciate and respect your Pendrench Jun 2019 #100

Pendrench... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #69

Hi NeoGreen - thank you for your thoughtful reply. Pendrench Jun 2019 #72

Pendrench... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #73

Hi NeoGreen - thank you again for your reply. Pendrench Jun 2019 #74

My pleasure... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #80

What are the alternatives to faith that can bring comfort and compassion? MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #103

What? trotsky Jun 2019 #104

I've heard, read this. It makes intuitive sense but MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #106

You should at least understand that it's possible other people see it differently than you do. trotsky Jun 2019 #107

I am encouraged to know they (you) are out there MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #111

Hi trotsky - I completely agree with you. Pendrench Jun 2019 #113

Hi MaryMadaline - Although I am a believer (Catholic), I do not think that life is meaningless for Pendrench Jun 2019 #105

DSM-V defines "mental disorder" as follows: The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #101

As I said in previous posts... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #108

Utilitarian question MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #102

If the 19 hijackers were 'cured' of their 'self-deceptions'... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #109

With your example, we would be better off. MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #110

US Marines, or any branch on the US military... NeoGreen Jun 2019 #112

Here we disagree. Give me 50k true believers vs 100k atheists MaryMagdaline Jun 2019 #114

And the Atheists will win, just... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #122

Dysrationalia NeoGreen Jul 2019 #118