Religion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

85. There are contextually appropriate circumstances. I view a pool and a bank as a public accomodation

Fri Jun 28, 2019, 05:09 PM

Jun 2019

and expect it to behave so. (Likely why the pools are now closed, as I suspect the French either do directly as well, or are observing UN rules. Like Mardi Gras, a ski slope is contextually appropriate, and if someone demands to see your face (like a police officer, which would be legal (Terry Stop)) you wouldn't have an affirmative defence of 'sorry man, it's mardi gras, so no'. Where a religious exemption is a bigger deal.

And as I mentioned, the face covering is not at issue at the pools. Nor is French law. (They should be free to wear those burkini's.)

In public spaces, when people conceal their faces, it engenders suspicion. Another social enforcement thing. Much like someone open carrying a firearm. It's unusual. It's out of place. Many will interpret it as a security issue.

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Muslim women defy ban to swim in burkinis at French pool 24 June 2019 [View all] guillaumeb Jun 2019 OP

This may have no bearing on the situation, however, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #1

You're absolutely right. It has no bearing on the situation. trotsky Jun 2019 #6

And what about analysis based on facts? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #10

There are facts and there is speculation based on prejudice. trotsky Jun 2019 #13

We agree that anti-religious prejudice is behind the burkini ban. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #19

Nope. trotsky Jun 2019 #22

You have not demonstrated that it is the nonreligious who are objecting MineralMan Jun 2019 #14

The ban itself, and the political support for it, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #28

You have not demonstrated that at all. MineralMan Jun 2019 #29

And this further attempt at avoidance guillaumeb Jun 2019 #30

It demonstrates that I disagree with you. MineralMan Jun 2019 #31

You don't mind if I bookmark your post here for future use do you? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #61

Bookmarks are free here. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #63

A dossier, I hope? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #64

Are dossiers also free? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #66

Facts. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #16

You're probably pretty familiar with French history. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2019 #24

The phrase "I was plenty provoked, thank you." springs to mind. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #56

Well, good for them for asserting their rights. MineralMan Jun 2019 #2

Agreed. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #5

Yeah, strange that someone would be more outraged at this... trotsky Jun 2019 #7

I just think the entire thing is utter nonsense. MineralMan Jun 2019 #8

It is all nonsense. trotsky Jun 2019 #9

What you mean is: guillaumeb Jun 2019 #11

He did not say that at all. MineralMan Jun 2019 #12

Yes, the open hostility to theists and theism. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #17

Oh, my! MineralMan Jun 2019 #18

You just don't understand Major Nikon Jun 2019 #25

Oh, I understand perfectly well. MineralMan Jun 2019 #26

That is a complete and utter falsehood. trotsky Jun 2019 #15

Please do not presume to tell others what they mean. MineralMan Jun 2019 #27

You are forgetting that Boston Atheists were once mean to a Trump supporter Major Nikon Jun 2019 #20

... trotsky Jun 2019 #23

France is not the US Major Nikon Jun 2019 #21

That is true, of course. MineralMan Jun 2019 #32

Religionists typically have the expectation their "rights" trump everything else Major Nikon Jun 2019 #33

For me, individual expression is something I MineralMan Jun 2019 #36

It's easy to consider such things in a vacuum Major Nikon Jun 2019 #37

We impose many things here. MineralMan Jun 2019 #39

I have a simpler way of looking at it Major Nikon Jun 2019 #40

I agree with that. MineralMan Jun 2019 #41

Wrong venue Cartoonist Jun 2019 #3

The correct venue. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #4

Clearly some are more concerned with religious intolerance than gender intolerance Major Nikon Jun 2019 #34

Religious sect Z forces women to cover their bodies. Country X won't let them. trotsky Jun 2019 #35

Isn't it wonderful when you can use tolerance to further intolerance? Major Nikon Jun 2019 #38

'But I know a couple people who say they *want* to!' AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #86

The burkini ban in some public pools is wrong edhopper Jun 2019 #42

If freedom in France is restricted to European attitudes and behaviors, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #45

And the second part of my question edhopper Jun 2019 #48

You will not get a response to that. trotsky Jun 2019 #49

Your attempt at analysis fails on many levels. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #52

No framing is necessary. trotsky Jun 2019 #53

I agree that your framing fails, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #54

Yes, people CAN read what you actually say. trotsky Jun 2019 #55

Are all women who wear the hijab subjugated? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #51

And women vote edhopper Jun 2019 #57

Some vote in that way because they believe it. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #59

So if subjugated people edhopper Jun 2019 #70

And now you are certain that they are brainwashed as well. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #72

Maybe you can point me to a matriarchal or matrilineal society that employs face coverings. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #58

My answer indicates that these Muslim theocracies are patriarchal. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #60

But does not address why some choose to keep wearing them when not embedded in that AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #62

The word "choose" is key here. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #65

You seem to be dodging my question. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #67

Your question is not to the point. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #68

It is the point. You claim they need to be free to choose. Are they? AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #69

You are diverting from the topic, possibly in an atempt to minimize this example guillaumeb Jun 2019 #71

It's a simple question, that could be more easily answered than your gyrations in dodging it. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #74

Are you? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #75

Yes, it's called social enforcement. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #78

Also, point of order, your own argumentation has drifted from the French situation. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #73

Which is why they closed the pool? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #76

Yeah, I suspect the government is going 'this is a bridge too far'. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #79

What liberties must one lose in the name of security? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #81

Walk into a bank with a ski mask on, in any country, and you tell me. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #83

A bank is not a pool. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #84

There are contextually appropriate circumstances. I view a pool and a bank as a public accomodation AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #85

While I agree, in part, with your response, guillaumeb Jun 2019 #87

So it's never religion with you edhopper Jun 2019 #89

Religion is a part of all theists. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #90

What attitudes does that include edhopper Jun 2019 #50

Is there a free society? guillaumeb Jun 2019 #77

Well... some of us are subject to the consequences of those rules, to a degree. AtheistCrusader Jun 2019 #80

Nice. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #82

Even if it includes edhopper Jun 2019 #88

Now the city has closed the pools. Eugene Jun 2019 #43

"See what you made us do, you filthy Muslim women?" MineralMan Jun 2019 #44

Very well said. guillaumeb Jun 2019 #47

Thank you for the update. eom guillaumeb Jun 2019 #46

My family went to a public pool in France. PassingFair Jul 2019 #91

Burkinis are intended to be, and designed to be, swimwear. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #92