Religion

Voltaire2

(14,632 posts)

32. I start from the assumption that we exist

Fri Aug 2, 2019, 04:00 PM

Aug 2019

in a universe that functions to the best of our knowledge as described by physics. That includes our experience of consciousness. There really is no room in that for a ‘free conscious choice’, your choice was determined by the state of the universe at the moment you made that choice.

As far as I’m concerned ‘free will’ is a theological construct used to impose moral sanctions on people, to justify other hideous behaviors used to punish immorality.

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We do not have free will. [View all] keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 OP

Within the context of belief in an all-powerful god... trotsky Aug 2019 #1

The Bible tells us that God has interfered with free will. Mariana Aug 2019 #6

Agreed hurl Aug 2019 #19

Why? People still sometimes make bad decisions with perfect foresight. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #33

Depends on what you mean by foresight hurl Aug 2019 #35

Disagree, but you are welcome to your belief. nt in2herbs Aug 2019 #2

Then you are more powerful than God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #9

I can honestly say I'm more powerful than your god. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #11

See post #1. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #12

Cool story. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #13

Not a problem. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #14

A single carbon atom is more powerful than god. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #34

In that vein: DetlefK Aug 2019 #3

Not true. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #4

+100 sinkingfeeling Aug 2019 #5

Yep! See post #1. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #10

How do you know that 'rejection of god(s)' is an act of free will, Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #17

Because I made said conscious decision. nt Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #23

Did you sleep on it first? Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #24

Since no one knows what free will is... Girard442 Aug 2019 #7

If it stays, your statement is allowed. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #8

You are right. MarvinGardens Aug 2019 #15

Only atheists have free will Cartoonist Aug 2019 #16

except this atheist who thinks 'free will' is an entirely dubious concept in a material universe. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #18

How can your will be "Free" uriel1972 Aug 2019 #20

Within bounds Cartoonist Aug 2019 #25

Because free doesn't necessarily mean unconstrained qazplm135 Aug 2019 #27

If it is bound, why call it free? uriel1972 Aug 2019 #36

because words can have subtlety qazplm135 Aug 2019 #37

true... uriel1972 Aug 2019 #39

no it doesn't qazplm135 Aug 2019 #42

"Research also shows that we retain veto power over a decision." trotsky Aug 2019 #43

It's literally the same study he is citing: qazplm135 Aug 2019 #44

That's only in the context of actions studied. You are suggesting a much broader interpretation. trotsky Aug 2019 #45

I didn't say qazplm135 Aug 2019 #47

Then people don't have the same free will. trotsky Aug 2019 #53

People usually have different constraints qazplm135 Aug 2019 #55

You're writing a lot of words to try and distract from the fact that you want it both ways. trotsky Aug 2019 #56

Yawn qazplm135 Aug 2019 #57

Actually, it is your fault, as I pointed out. trotsky Aug 2019 #58

First off Cartoonist Aug 2019 #46

I've been wondering if this is a valid position: OriginalGeek Aug 2019 #31

I start from the assumption that we exist Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #32

quantum physics kills that qazplm135 Aug 2019 #38

Quantum physics breaks down at the atomic level... uriel1972 Aug 2019 #40

our decisions qazplm135 Aug 2019 #41

if your claim is that "free will" emerges from quantum (or other) randomness Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #60

Considering his claim was about qazplm135 Aug 2019 #61

No it allows for random events. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #62

Again... qazplm135 Aug 2019 #63

Yes your mythical free will requires some level of non-determinism. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #66

See this is why I rarely bother with this qazplm135 Aug 2019 #67

Yes, so where is the evidence for free will? Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #68

So all of these trained experts qazplm135 Aug 2019 #74

Yes randomness can be a component of free will. Jim__ Aug 2019 #64

again this just reduces free will to "non-deterministic' behavior. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #65

No, it doesn't. It introduces conscious control into the search and deliberation processes. Jim__ Aug 2019 #69

except that when neurologists go looking for this alleged 'conscious control' what they find instead Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #70

From your citation: "The illusion may only apply to a small set of our choices ..." Jim__ Aug 2019 #71

yeah because of the limitations of the investigative tools (fMRI) only simple experiments can be Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #72

The limitations of the investigative tools constitute limitations on what you can learn ... Jim__ Aug 2019 #73

Did you really think this through? uriel1972 Aug 2019 #21

"Within the context of belief in an all-powerful god..." keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #22

Then we are all puppets qazplm135 Aug 2019 #28

For those who believe in an all-powerful God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #30

I was taught that in Ctholic school. I never believed it. It was made up. When ever something wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #52

Most people don't have free will watoos Aug 2019 #26

Isaiah 45:7 LuvNewcastle Aug 2019 #29

Yes, he seems to have created an awful lot of evil! FiveGoodMen Aug 2019 #78

"We do not have free will." Quite possibly true. Iggo Aug 2019 #48

Not a problem. You don't have to believe in an all-powerful God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #49

... Major Nikon Aug 2019 #50

So you are not responcible for your actions since you did not use your free will to choose to do wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #51

What free will? keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #54

Maybe it was norepinephrine. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2019 #59

We are a function of decisions we make, decisions we do not make... lonely bird Aug 2019 #75

When's your God going to take responsibility SHRED Aug 2019 #76

Like you're god paleotn Aug 2019 #77

No! I'm not Mitt Romney in his future. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #79

Hi keithbvadu2 - thank you for posting this very interesting topic. Pendrench Aug 2019 #80

Thanks. Your article dives deep into the subject. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #81