Religion

Jim__

(14,429 posts)

73. The limitations of the investigative tools constitute limitations on what you can learn ...

Reply to Voltaire2 (Reply #72)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:30 PM

Aug 2019

... from those tools.

The problem is that there are now many such experiments and they keep showing the same results.

Have these experiments tested any decisions that have important consequences for the people being tested? Have they tested simple decisions like financial decisions I've described in post #71? If not, I'm not sure what implications these experiments have for those types of decisions.

We all carry out hundreds of experiments every day when we freely make conscious decisions. I haven't seen any evidence that those decisions are illusory. And, I haven't heard any explanations for why our brains should evolve such energy expensive processes that are only illusory, or why those processes would be selectively advantageous.

Again, from your citation:

The illusion may only apply to a small set of our choices that are made quickly and without too much thought.

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We do not have free will. [View all] keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 OP

Within the context of belief in an all-powerful god... trotsky Aug 2019 #1

The Bible tells us that God has interfered with free will. Mariana Aug 2019 #6

Agreed hurl Aug 2019 #19

Why? People still sometimes make bad decisions with perfect foresight. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #33

Depends on what you mean by foresight hurl Aug 2019 #35

Disagree, but you are welcome to your belief. nt in2herbs Aug 2019 #2

Then you are more powerful than God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #9

I can honestly say I'm more powerful than your god. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #11

See post #1. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #12

Cool story. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #13

Not a problem. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #14

A single carbon atom is more powerful than god. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #34

In that vein: DetlefK Aug 2019 #3

Not true. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #4

+100 sinkingfeeling Aug 2019 #5

Yep! See post #1. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #10

How do you know that 'rejection of god(s)' is an act of free will, Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #17

Because I made said conscious decision. nt Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2019 #23

Did you sleep on it first? Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #24

Since no one knows what free will is... Girard442 Aug 2019 #7

If it stays, your statement is allowed. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #8

You are right. MarvinGardens Aug 2019 #15

Only atheists have free will Cartoonist Aug 2019 #16

except this atheist who thinks 'free will' is an entirely dubious concept in a material universe. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #18

How can your will be "Free" uriel1972 Aug 2019 #20

Within bounds Cartoonist Aug 2019 #25

Because free doesn't necessarily mean unconstrained qazplm135 Aug 2019 #27

If it is bound, why call it free? uriel1972 Aug 2019 #36

because words can have subtlety qazplm135 Aug 2019 #37

true... uriel1972 Aug 2019 #39

no it doesn't qazplm135 Aug 2019 #42

"Research also shows that we retain veto power over a decision." trotsky Aug 2019 #43

It's literally the same study he is citing: qazplm135 Aug 2019 #44

That's only in the context of actions studied. You are suggesting a much broader interpretation. trotsky Aug 2019 #45

I didn't say qazplm135 Aug 2019 #47

Then people don't have the same free will. trotsky Aug 2019 #53

People usually have different constraints qazplm135 Aug 2019 #55

You're writing a lot of words to try and distract from the fact that you want it both ways. trotsky Aug 2019 #56

Yawn qazplm135 Aug 2019 #57

Actually, it is your fault, as I pointed out. trotsky Aug 2019 #58

First off Cartoonist Aug 2019 #46

I've been wondering if this is a valid position: OriginalGeek Aug 2019 #31

I start from the assumption that we exist Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #32

quantum physics kills that qazplm135 Aug 2019 #38

Quantum physics breaks down at the atomic level... uriel1972 Aug 2019 #40

our decisions qazplm135 Aug 2019 #41

if your claim is that "free will" emerges from quantum (or other) randomness Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #60

Considering his claim was about qazplm135 Aug 2019 #61

No it allows for random events. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #62

Again... qazplm135 Aug 2019 #63

Yes your mythical free will requires some level of non-determinism. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #66

See this is why I rarely bother with this qazplm135 Aug 2019 #67

Yes, so where is the evidence for free will? Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #68

So all of these trained experts qazplm135 Aug 2019 #74

Yes randomness can be a component of free will. Jim__ Aug 2019 #64

again this just reduces free will to "non-deterministic' behavior. Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #65

No, it doesn't. It introduces conscious control into the search and deliberation processes. Jim__ Aug 2019 #69

except that when neurologists go looking for this alleged 'conscious control' what they find instead Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #70

From your citation: "The illusion may only apply to a small set of our choices ..." Jim__ Aug 2019 #71

yeah because of the limitations of the investigative tools (fMRI) only simple experiments can be Voltaire2 Aug 2019 #72

The limitations of the investigative tools constitute limitations on what you can learn ... Jim__ Aug 2019 #73

Did you really think this through? uriel1972 Aug 2019 #21

"Within the context of belief in an all-powerful god..." keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #22

Then we are all puppets qazplm135 Aug 2019 #28

For those who believe in an all-powerful God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #30

I was taught that in Ctholic school. I never believed it. It was made up. When ever something wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #52

Most people don't have free will watoos Aug 2019 #26

Isaiah 45:7 LuvNewcastle Aug 2019 #29

Yes, he seems to have created an awful lot of evil! FiveGoodMen Aug 2019 #78

"We do not have free will." Quite possibly true. Iggo Aug 2019 #48

Not a problem. You don't have to believe in an all-powerful God. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #49

... Major Nikon Aug 2019 #50

So you are not responcible for your actions since you did not use your free will to choose to do wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #51

What free will? keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #54

Maybe it was norepinephrine. Act_of_Reparation Aug 2019 #59

We are a function of decisions we make, decisions we do not make... lonely bird Aug 2019 #75

When's your God going to take responsibility SHRED Aug 2019 #76

Like you're god paleotn Aug 2019 #77

No! I'm not Mitt Romney in his future. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #79

Hi keithbvadu2 - thank you for posting this very interesting topic. Pendrench Aug 2019 #80

Thanks. Your article dives deep into the subject. keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #81