Atheists & Agnostics

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

30. If he gets some people to start caring about economic issues

Fri Sep 25, 2015, 12:42 PM

Sep 2015

then that is helpful.

If we as liberals dismiss his authority on LGBTQ, women, reproductive issues, etc., then why can't conservatives simply dismiss his authority on climate change and economics just as easily?

It's not zero-sum.

Different majorities will have to be brought to bear to solve these different problems. So use something like, "Even the Pope tells you to care about the poor" when you're fighting for the poor. It's not an endorsement of everything that comes from him, but still can be useful in getting some groups to change from prosperity gospel-lite to supporting efforts to reduce poverty.

Those people who were just convinced to help fight poverty will not be convinced to fight for LGBT rights or reproductive issues. So the pope becomes irrelevant - they already oppose, and the pope opposing doesn't change their mind. To advance those causes, we will have to assemble a different pool of people.

For example, actual libertarians might like "Get government out of our bedrooms" while never supporting economic reform efforts.

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Pope demonstrates colossal ignorance and hypocrisy [View all] trotsky Sep 2015 OP

"Hateful" is not a qualifier I would apply to Pope Francis. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #1

So what does this statement about gay marriage make him? Goblinmonger Sep 2015 #2

Did you read the text of my post? Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #4

So how do we know when someone is a bigot Goblinmonger Sep 2015 #5

"And what's the damn difference?" Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #9

Do you understand what sub-forum that you are posting in at the moment? PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #12

Do you mean "Atheists & Agnostics"? Yes, I am aware. I happen to be an agnostic, FWIW. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #16

EVERYBODY'S an agnostic. Nobody knows. So what? mr blur Sep 2015 #76

Saying that gay couples raising children is child abuse is fucking hateful PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #7

Firstly, I would direct you to post N° 3... Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #10

And I will direct to to post # 4 PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #11

Have at it...whatever it takes to mollify your obvious rage. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #13

Do you understand what sub-forum that you are posting in at the moment? PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #14

Please see post N°16, where I've already replied to this question. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #20

Yes, it fills me with rage that he calls gays raising children child abuse. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #15

Rage and fury are very personal and subjective emotions. Saying that any pronouncement Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #17

OK, I will change that to say that it should fill decent human beings who have a moral compass PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #23

Notwithstanding a fairly well-honed moral compass, I am not enraged. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #26

We used to live next to a lesbian couple with two kids. trotsky Sep 2015 #28

Anger--How if affects people. FYI Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #34

OK, I see you've abandoned any attempt to logically defend your position... trotsky Sep 2015 #36

No "personal" attack intended or implied. Simply a medically substantiated Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #38

The Upside of Anger: 6 Psychological Benefits of Getting Mad trotsky Sep 2015 #39

I personally try to transform anger into other less destructive sentiments. Not good for Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #41

Well, at any rate, you've abandoned trying to defend your position, trotsky Sep 2015 #49

I do NOT embrace him. I respectfully demur at detesting him, however. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #51

Good for you! trotsky Sep 2015 #53

This post sums up the tone of the subthread perfectly. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #54

It bothers me A LOT that this pope is out there using his bully pulpit to spread ignorance and hate. trotsky Sep 2015 #56

Exactly. Or made to feel like you're an unreasonable brute. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #58

No apology required. Your emotions are your emotions. Why apologize? Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #60

I claim moral superiority to no-one. I'm surprised that you would cede that position to me. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #61

Not only does the man say gays with children is child abuse Lordquinton Sep 2015 #64

So basically your argument is that the pope is Warren Stupidity Sep 2015 #40

I prefer "hidebound" and "blinkered". Your particular lexical choice would not be mine. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #42

I don't hate him either. I find many of his utterances to be hateful bigotry. Warren Stupidity Sep 2015 #62

No-one is giving anyone a "pass", as I said up-thread. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #70

Don't bring the "angry atheist" tone policing in here Lordquinton Sep 2015 #63

I'm not 'angry' and do not wish to become so. OTOH, whatever emotions others Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #69

He said "tone policing". Meaning you came in here trying to paint US as hateful PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #73

'Perceptions' of tone are extremely subjective. The perceived 'painting' of anyone as anything Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #75

That's not what I'm talking about Lordquinton Sep 2015 #77

There is no such 'accusation' of anger against anyone. In numerous Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #79

You introduced the word "rage" in this thread in a very patronizing and arrogant manner. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #80

And, you then embraced it as your own with alacrity. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #81

I recall having incredibly pleasant interactions with you during the Charlie Hebdo massacre PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #82

Nice chat... Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #83

You brought it in first Lordquinton Sep 2015 #84

I can only bow before your conspicuously superincumbent sagacity. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #85

Are you a pompous idiot? I only ask because you "sound" like one. mr blur Sep 2015 #86

Pomposity is as pomposity does, mr blur. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #87

Given this whole thread Lordquinton Sep 2015 #88

Feel free to think what you will, Lord. My faith is my own and very personal. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #89

Amazing Lordquinton Sep 2015 #90

Take what, exactly? My duck feathers are fairly waterproof... Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #91

If you say so Lordquinton Sep 2015 #92

I sleep like a 'tree stump', as my French compatriots would say. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #93

Well, you certainly appear to think like one. mr blur Sep 2015 #95

Oh, là là! What wit! Cuts like the proverbial rapier! Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #96

If nothing else, you do seem to have an obsessive need to get the last word. trotsky Sep 2015 #97

In the distant place and time where my character was formed, it was deemed Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #98

I just rec'd it in your honour. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #19

Well, good on you! LOL! Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #21

You wouldn't like where I'd beam you to. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #32

Nevertheless, bon voyage! Boldly go...etc. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #33

No, no, no. They're just MISGUIDED PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #22

There's a lot of "misguided" people on DU. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #24

hateful trotsky Sep 2015 #25

By my reading of the OP, it seemed that the third definition was the Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #29

Frank believes in hell. trotsky Sep 2015 #31

Yes, "hidebound and blinkered", but not automatically "malevolent" with intent. Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #37

Use him where he is helpful. Oppose him where he is not. jeff47 Sep 2015 #3

he's really not, though. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #8

He's not as useful there, but still can be useful. jeff47 Sep 2015 #18

"Use him" how, exactly? trotsky Sep 2015 #27

If he gets some people to start caring about economic issues jeff47 Sep 2015 #30

And if he gets some people to oppose abortion rights? Cool too? trotsky Sep 2015 #35

He isn't changing dogma to oppose abortion rights. He's following existing dogma. jeff47 Sep 2015 #44

"The people who follow him already oppose abortion rights"? trotsky Sep 2015 #46

It was shorthand, not an exhaustive statement. jeff47 Sep 2015 #47

Now you're not making sense. trotsky Sep 2015 #48

Right-wingers aren't going to be convinced by anyone. jeff47 Sep 2015 #50

Then what the fuck do we need the pope for? trotsky Sep 2015 #55

They aren't going to listen to us. jeff47 Sep 2015 #57

But you just said they won't listen to him either! trotsky Sep 2015 #59

You're clumping people together who do not agree. jeff47 Sep 2015 #66

He is not saying anything different than the last however many popes have said Lordquinton Sep 2015 #65

Except Benedict and the previous popes didn't have this focus on poverty. jeff47 Sep 2015 #68

Benedict wrote books railing against capitalism and poverty. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #74

But his views are identical Lordquinton Sep 2015 #78

Had to rec this because of P1 Cartoonist Sep 2015 #6

sounds like he's evolving on the issue..time will tell. or maybe it will take the next pope or two. yodermon Sep 2015 #43

"Hating on him is about as useful as swooning over him"... Surya Gayatri Sep 2015 #45

I am allowed to voice my opinions about anti-gay bigots. trotsky Sep 2015 #52

Calling out his bigotry does not equivicate to hate Lordquinton Sep 2015 #67

What changes? He hasn't changed a damn thing! LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #72

Praising the enemy only give our "so called" allies bad ideas LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #71

My fundamentalist niece posted this: mountain grammy Sep 2015 #94