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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: How Bernie's campaign contributed to Trump's win. [View all]JCanete
(5,272 posts)388. Oh Jesus. In many ways both sides have insulated big money for decades. This is just a fact.
        The Democratic Party has been very unwilling to make a real stand against the high level of financial corruption in the GOP because quite simply, they would be throwing stones while living in a glass house. Aside from Bernie, and then Trump because what does he give a shit, there has been an unspoken agreement in Washington to not go after politicians for their financial connections. Everybody is just a well meaning citizen doing their duty.
Had Bernie not gotten a groundswell of support, these very real concerns would still be entirely mum in Washington, because nobody with a megaphone would risk alienating their fellow democrats sucking on the teat of big business. You can blame the Sanders campaign for bringing the issues into the mainstream, but I blame the party for making themselves vulnerable on this issue.
Being an attack dog against anybody with criticisms for your Candidate is unexamined, unprincipled team pride in the extreme. Especially since in my opinion, the primaries made Hillary a better candidate. She started advocated for things that I actually cared about in a meaningful way, like free college tuition, and she outright said, the first time I ever heard it, that there should not be for profit prisons in America. This sort of rhetoric finally encouraged me that there was hope here, but don't pretend that she wasn't pulled to the left. Don't pretend that had there been no Sanders she would have been appealing to these voters in this way. This is to say nothing of her actual intentions once she gets into the White House, but unless she tells me what they are, why am I going to be enthusiastic about voting for her?
The reality though, is that Sanders is not the reason Clinton lost anyway. The single worst decision made was for her to run at all and for the DNC to put all of its eggs in that basket from the get-go. It is not a common thing for a party establishment to go with the candidate who has been put through such a ringer and so Vilified as Clinton has been. I grant, they all thought she deserved the role. They all had been working with her for decades and knew and loved her brand of politics, and maybe they thought they were going to show the GOP and the corporate media that she had survived it all and was still going to take the White House, but that sort of hubris is out of the norm for politics. Usually people get retired or sidelined. "Thank you for your service. Thank you for being a magnet all these years and persevering, but we can't take a chance that all the smears haven't stuck." That's unfair, but the office of Presidency isn't awarded to somebody out of fairness. I understand why she didn't sit it out. I don't understand why the insiders didn't try to persuade her to sit it out. They in fact, did the exact opposite.
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        And who would have been more "competent" in your eyes?  Certainly not Sanders, he lost to her!
        George II
        Nov 2016
        #244
      
        
        I've heard/read nobody anywhere say that they voted for Hillary because of Bernie.
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #50
      
        
        Actually, all we know is that VOTERS were the only players in his loss of the nomination.
        synergie
        Nov 2016
        #131
      
        
        The willful delusion seems to be among those who were loudly proclaiming that
        synergie
        Nov 2016
        #413
      
        
        Agreed!  If Bernie had run as an Independent both he and HRC would have been guaranteed to lose.
        Dustlawyer
        Nov 2016
        #324
      
        
        I just dont like how he would not stop running even after he lost and called our party corrupt
        bravenak
        Nov 2016
        #278
      
        
        We (I say 'we' as a Bernie supporter at the time) were told the first week of the primary we had
        AtheistCrusader
        Nov 2016
        #288
      
        
        If I assume that ALL of that is entirely accurate and represents ALL or even most black democrats,
        AtheistCrusader
        Nov 2016
        #302
      
        
        Nobody insisted he drop out until matcmatically eliminated. He decided to 'take it to the convention
        bravenak
        Nov 2016
        #316
      
        
        The shame of it is that he didn't need to be perfect, he just needed to show up
        forjusticethunders
        Nov 2016
        #409
      
        
        He contributed by not being selected VP; alienating Leftist-RWers, Indys, Never Trumps & some Progs.
        TheBlackAdder
        Nov 2016
        #5
      
        
        There was a nationwide collective gasp, followed by the question, "Who the fuck is Tim Kaine?"
        TheBlackAdder
        Nov 2016
        #90
      
        
        I thought Kaine a very odd choice. Maybe she thought she needed a saintly man to balance Bill.
        SleeplessinSoCal
        Nov 2016
        #104
      
        
        But his followers calied her a crook, made a big deal of emails, her Foundation, speeches, etc.
        Hoyt
        Nov 2016
        #14
      
        
        Bullshit! Weaver said Clinton made a "deal with the Devil". Bernie went scorched earth NY primary.
        emulatorloo
        Nov 2016
        #19
      
        
        Am with you on this one.  Bernie ran on the issues, not on personal attacks.
        secondwind
        Nov 2016
        #168
      
        
        He accused her of being "part of he corrupt establishment" over and over again.
        pnwmom
        Nov 2016
        #260
      
        
        Take a look at Kurt Eichenwald's post-mortem.  Bernie would have been slaughtered in GE
        emulatorloo
        Nov 2016
        #21
      
        
        Eichenwald's opinion of why Bernie would have lost is the same rational for why he should have done
        aikoaiko
        Nov 2016
        #74
      
        
        I believe those wikileaks also showed that they feared going negative on Bernie.
        aikoaiko
        Nov 2016
        #82
      
        
        You're apparently predisposed to ascribe the worst motives to HRC.  It is what it is.
        emulatorloo
        Nov 2016
        #88
      
        
        To say they held off on going fullout negative strategically is not ascribing the worst motives.
        aikoaiko
        Nov 2016
        #97
      
        
        It was more than a single debate.  But after Weaver said HRC made a "deal with the Devil"
        emulatorloo
        Nov 2016
        #237
      
        
        EICHENWALD intentionally omits the new exclusivity clause by the DNC which made outside
        think
        Nov 2016
        #41
      
        
        Once again, there were 22 debates and forums, 14 w just Bernie and HRC. Versus 17 in 2008,
        emulatorloo
        Nov 2016
        #48
      
        
        Once again you ignore that we had 13 debates in the spring and summer of 2007 and ZERO in 2015
        think
        Nov 2016
        #54
      
        
        To be fair, DNCleaks just dropped and DWS was in the process of being removed
        NWCorona
        Nov 2016
        #171
      
        
        Clinton lost because she beat Bernie yet he was wrong for pointing out her weaknesses in the primary
        JoeOtterbein
        Nov 2016
        #30
      
        
        Bernie actually transformed Hillary into a STRONGER candidate, ie, a more progressive one...
        InAbLuEsTaTe
        Nov 2016
        #73
      
        
        Bernie talked about the economic system being rigged for Wall Street and the rich.
        jalan48
        Nov 2016
        #33
      
        
        No, he wasn't wrong. The Republicans didn't do it alone they were too often aided and abetted
        TheKentuckian
        Nov 2016
        #62
      
        
        ... and then he went after "Secretary Clinton's" speeches.  Heard him do it with my own ears.
        ucrdem
        Nov 2016
        #44
      
        
        275,000 for 45 minutes. I bet that played well with working class folks trying to make ends meet
        jalan48
        Nov 2016
        #49
      
        
        not all voted for trump either or even sanders. only reason working class for hillary is dismissed
        JI7
        Nov 2016
        #70
      
        
        Bashing? -I'm simply pointing out one reason why Hillary did not connect with working folks.
        jalan48
        Nov 2016
        #101
      
        
        Delusional is to think Clinton's former campaign chair was impartial as the head of the DNC.
        jalan48
        Nov 2016
        #285
      
        
        You made a ridiculous point. I never said Brazile cost Bernie the primary. You said that.
        jalan48
        Nov 2016
        #292
      
        
        There is an establishment in both parties, and it is unpopular in both parties
        davidn3600
        Nov 2016
        #76
      
        
        Oh Jesus. In many ways both sides have insulated big money for decades. This is just a fact.
        JCanete
        Nov 2016
        #388
      
        
        No they have not been fighting that. That is absurd. And I know very well there is
        JCanete
        Nov 2016
        #395
      
        
        oh really? Well thanks for clearing that up. I guess democrats AND republicans
        JCanete
        Nov 2016
        #402
      
        
        But Trump was also running against the GOP.... truly it was a bizarre year, there's been nothing
        bettyellen
        Nov 2016
        #65
      
        
        When do we see the "How Hillary's campaign contributed to Trump's win" thread?
        FBaggins
        Nov 2016
        #46
      
        
        These folks are dying on the neoliberal hill and they will throw up any and all defenses to do so
        TheKentuckian
        Nov 2016
        #71
      
        
        Bernie is not a Democrat, never was, he claimed he was for a brief spell to try and hijack the
        Grey Lemercier
        Nov 2016
        #109
      
        
        In the United States we build our coalitions before the election for president.
        Gore1FL
        Nov 2016
        #247
      
        
        FACT: Democrats have collaborated with Republicans to get a lot of this stuff done.
        LS_Editor
        Nov 2016
        #80
      
        
        And the Establishment is the one with neoliberals and republicans that benefited from........
        nolabels
        Nov 2016
        #128
      
        
        Circular firing squad is so...typical. It's blame Bernie here, who's next?  Anyone but
        FailureToCommunicate
        Nov 2016
        #83
      
        
        Bernie had to run against the DNC, Hillary, monied interests, as well as the republican field.
        CentralMass
        Nov 2016
        #102
      
        
        No-one, least of all Bernie Sanders was calling for dismantling capitalism completely.
        Kentonio
        Nov 2016
        #199
      
        
        Capitalism is the problem.  I see very few people, even on DU, that get this idea.
        Red Oak
        Nov 2016
        #385
      
        
        Obama never advocated for 15 min wage, single-payer healthcare, and did support TPP.
        Zen Democrat
        Nov 2016
        #107
      
        
        Face it. We would have been better off with a Sanders loss than a Clinton loss.
        pablo_marmol
        Nov 2016
        #360
      
        
        Oh, I do understand your position, but there are a few things you don't seem to understand
        world wide wally
        Nov 2016
        #379
      
        
        "Just because Republicans say she has all this "baggage" doesn't make it so."
        pablo_marmol
        Nov 2016
        #382
      
        
        Oh sorry, after handing the country to Trump you thought you could still control the party?
        Kentonio
        Nov 2016
        #202
      
        
        I agree, Bernie has been dishonestly attacking the Democratic party and drawing false
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #138
      
        
        I'd say it's a pretty big lesson in this case.  The emails and the media's obsession with them,
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #339
      
        
        The  fact is that Sanders pushed her to the RIGHT on trade and that killed her best attack
        ucrdem
        Nov 2016
        #125
      
        
        Yes, she did fail.  Bernie made her job harder though, with his dishonest primary
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #139
      
        
        And you're still working to make Democrats think the enemy is Sanders and not the GOP. n/t
        PoliticAverse
        Nov 2016
        #178
      
        
        Continue to shame and demean the American public, let's see if that brings people into the fold
        SpareribSP
        Nov 2016
        #376
      
        
        The polls were wrong, as proved by Hillary losing. She was ahead in nearly all of them.
        grossproffit
        Nov 2016
        #143
      
        
        funny i thought the rule were not to speak ill of fellow dems and this is on the greatest list
        dembotoz
        Nov 2016
        #144
      
        
        Yeap, which on the face of it was wrong but throw the baby out with the bath water and
        uponit7771
        Nov 2016
        #148
      
        
        Tell me about it.  The DNC, "neoliberals", "corporatists", DWS, Donna Brazile, superdelegates.
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #155
      
        
        I walked around not thinking that HRC was part of the establishment, but thinking she was brilliant
        Madam45for2923
        Nov 2016
        #158
      
        
        Not to mention the boneheaded moves she made surrounding the whole transcript issue...
        TCJ70
        Nov 2016
        #174
      
        
        Chances are they wouldn't have voted for her anyway. They would have just stayed home.
        bekkilyn
        Nov 2016
        #175
      
        
        Just another post blaming someone else for Hillary's poor campaign and message
        hueymahl
        Nov 2016
        #182
      
        
        Bullshit is right!! Bernie is the only reason Hillary received as many votes as she got!
        InAbLuEsTaTe
        Nov 2016
        #301
      
        
        I call bullshit.  She (or more accurately her campaign) could not beat the worst candidate
        Still In Wisconsin
        Nov 2016
        #187
      
        
        Bobbled the ball is a perfect analogy.  The R's nominating Trump was the eqivalent of
        Still In Wisconsin
        Nov 2016
        #266
      
        
        Only sore losers keep blaming others for their lose when it is evident they lost on their own lack
        Larkspur
        Nov 2016
        #212
      
        
        Sure, if you in turn also concede that the democrats being vulnerable to these attacks in the first
        JCanete
        Nov 2016
        #392
      
        
        Bernie's message would have sold like gangbusters with a President Mitt Romney or John McCain.
        forjusticethunders
        Nov 2016
        #250
      
        
        Oh good. While you're busy scapegoating Bernie, we can move on and lose the next election too. Yay.
        AtheistCrusader
        Nov 2016
        #262
      
        
        Exactly, because if we actually admitted that the DNC fucked this up, they would have a harder time
        Still In Wisconsin
        Nov 2016
        #268
      
        
        A recurring refrain I have heard on both sides of the political aisles is, 'no more aristocracies'.
        AtheistCrusader
        Nov 2016
        #282
      
        
        "He blamed it on "the establishment", whereas the actual blame lies with the GOP."
        LiberalLovinLug
        Nov 2016
        #309
      
        
        Obama's administration was well to the left of Bill Clinton's, so we can dispense with the silliness
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #313
      
        
        Are you seriously denying that Obama's administration was to the left of Bill's?
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #378
      
        
        I am saying that the parties leadership has shifted to the right....other than social positions
        LiberalLovinLug
        Nov 2016
        #400
      
        
        Umm, except that over the last 20 years, it has shifted left on economic issues.
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #401
      
        
        how did HILLARY contribute to hetr own defeat? i knew it was off the tracks when she pick kaine.
        pansypoo53219
        Nov 2016
        #317
      
        
        Not well, and there's no reason to believe Bernie's lead would have worked out any better.
        DanTex
        Nov 2016
        #337
      
        
        This just sounds like another excuse for a weak and very disliked candidate.
        BigBoss26
        Nov 2016
        #373
      
        
        His intention was for the Democrats to win. Your candidate won, therefore we didn't. n/t
        lumberjack_jeff
        Nov 2016
        #389
      
        
        Clinton won the popular vote, so she wasn't weak.  The margin of people who voted
        R B Garr
        Dec 2016
        #419