2016 Postmortem

TheBlackAdder

(28,932 posts)

172. Another pick on Sanders OP, to drive views and comments, but Ill play.

Thu Dec 1, 2016, 10:12 PM

Dec 2016

.

HRC lost because she failed to accept those who leaned towards Sanders' positions, and then only near the end.

Her choice of Tim Kaine was a slap in the face to the Independents, Left-Leaning Republicans, and Never-Trumpers.
While HRC appealed to the Democratic base, one can not win an election without bringing Independents onboard.

Her campaign, and many others silenced this force, and assumed that everyone would polarize to Dem or Rep.

Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush fucking hated each other, during their primary... I mean fucking hated each other!

Reagan made the decision to onboard GHWB to prevent a fracturing of the party, allowing him to defeat Carter.

Not bringing Sanders on, as the VP pick, removed the blow-out support HRC had--support that would have survived any hacking, Comey, television, white supremacist, MSM or whatever forces that were energized at the last minute.

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If you don't think Bernie and his campaign and his supporters basically calling Hillary [View all] boston bean Dec 2016 OP

K&R! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #1

Well Hillary was more the lesser of two evils el_bryanto Dec 2016 #2

I liked Hillary alot and would have had to hold my nose to vote for Bernie...didn't like him. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #160

Another pick on Sanders OP, to drive views and comments, but Ill play. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #172

Well those who didn't vote for her because she didn't worship at Bernie's feet Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #174

Still, there's the disconnect with political reality. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #175

She didn't win with the people who wanted CHANGE TexasBushwhacker Dec 2016 #177

There are a few reasons for that, and many are not opening up their minds that motivations vary. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #180

I'm glad I'm not the only one TexasBushwhacker Dec 2016 #181

No. There were not "two evils" on the ballot. tinrobot Dec 2016 #183

I guess you aren't familiar with the phrase lesser of two evils el_bryanto Dec 2016 #184

It is equivocation. It means both candidates are "evil" tinrobot Dec 2016 #187

Well how would you have phrased it? If it had been Sanders and Trump for example? nt el_bryanto Dec 2016 #189

I dunno... I'm sure you can come up with something that works. tinrobot Dec 2016 #193

None of those convey the same thing though, do they? el_bryanto Dec 2016 #195

You don't always need to disclose the complete inner workings of your decision process. tinrobot Dec 2016 #198

That seems dishonest and counter productive el_bryanto Dec 2016 #199

Sowing doubt about a candidate is productive? tinrobot Dec 2016 #200

Anyone and I mean anyone that uses the term the lesser of two evils... LiberalFighter Dec 2016 #194

OK - that makes no sense el_bryanto Dec 2016 #196

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #3

Hillary WASN'T a weak candidate. She was one of the strongest candidates any party has ever fielded EffieBlack Dec 2016 #6

So true... but but but they want to say.. White people in rural areas who voted for a racist boston bean Dec 2016 #10

Its funny how Sanders people pointed this out in the primary and Clinton people ignored it GummyBearz Dec 2016 #58

You really think that Bernie would have won the general when he couldn't win the primary? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #65

Well his head to head matchup numbers vs trump were better than Hillary's were GummyBearz Dec 2016 #80

Can you provide a link to those stats? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #83

These are the first ones I found, the dates are a few months off though GummyBearz Dec 2016 #85

They'd have to include Bloomberg since he said he was in if Bernie won the primary. n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #93

As if that was definite. JudyM Dec 2016 #169

Everyone who doesnt participate in the GE have polling better than if they were participating. stevenleser Dec 2016 #102

And that goes both ways GummyBearz Dec 2016 #113

There is no both ways. Its a very simple issue. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #115

Uh no GummyBearz Dec 2016 #117

+1000 and 10% point spread. JudyM Dec 2016 #171

Exactly. So tired of the flogging of that "oh, he would've been decimated for being socialist" JudyM Dec 2016 #170

Yes, Bernie beats trump. He wins every state HRC did PLUS the rust belt. A tragic missed oppurtunity jack_krass Dec 2016 #166

good post. Wonder how the general election would have turned out if Sanders was the VP? Sunlei Dec 2016 #77

Well said. These are the facts that I can't help ruminating on. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #90

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #34

that is utter crap dsc Dec 2016 #41

The conspiracy part was crap. Even though the DNC favored her, they Chakab Dec 2016 #49

Party leadership continues in mistake mode.... RiverStone Dec 2016 #155

Amen jack_krass Dec 2016 #167

Don't want to pick a fight, but that was not my experience in talking to folks ReverendHeretic Dec 2016 #52

"Talking to folks" is no substitute for objective, verified numbers and analysis. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #126

yup, like all those numbers proving that Hillary would win? ReverendHeretic Dec 2016 #154

Welcome to DU n/t musicblind Dec 2016 #129

Didn't kick ass in Wisconsin; didn't even go there. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #137

If she was such a strong candidate, why were her popularity numbers so low? Her trust numbers? JudyM Dec 2016 #157

IF BERNIE had worked HARDER for Hillary, it would have helped her alot. trueblue2007 Dec 2016 #168

Hillary Clinton was not a weak candidate. musicblind Dec 2016 #17

She had 25 years of smears, many of which Bernie supporters believed ehrnst Dec 2016 #68

The 53% of women who voted against her were Bernie supporters? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #92

No - 54% of all women who voted voted FOR Hillary. Please get your stats straight. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #95

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/white-women-helped-elect-donald-trump.html?_r0 TonyPDX Dec 2016 #107

White women does not equal "women" spooky3 Dec 2016 #188

Losing a majority of any sector was her problem, not mine. Why did they vote against her? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #191

when you understand more about statistics, let's have a conversation. spooky3 Dec 2016 #192

Again, an allegation lacking any objective evidence to support it. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #124

You give 3 GS speeches for $675K and them's the breaks BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #4

There was NONE and STILL NO boston bean Dec 2016 #7

There didn't have to be BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #11

Such direct evidence wouldn't exist. el_bryanto Dec 2016 #12

she had a right to be exempt from that perception, she deserved the benefit of the doubt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #20

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #144

And Trump's speaking fees were as high as a million and a half. musicblind Dec 2016 #18

Was Trump running in the Democratic primary? BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #23

She would have been better off by simple releasing the transcripts... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #25

Bernie hiding his tax returns was also an issue. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #97

No argument from me. n/t TCJ70 Dec 2016 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #146

Bernie's tax returns was not a negative for Hillary. Raster Dec 2016 #176

Had the Democrats not pounded her on the speeches musicblind Dec 2016 #132

Rooting for political malpractice is not a strategy BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #136

So "what the hell was Bernie thinking" when he refused to release his tax returns? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #69

That was fair game too BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #76

Not among Bernie's supporters, it wasn't. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #148

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #147

What number thread is this for you on this subject? FYI NWCorona Dec 2016 #5

You seem to be counting.. Why don't you tell me. boston bean Dec 2016 #8

At least two. NWCorona Dec 2016 #9

Not a whole two. Say it ain't so. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #14

OMG, someone made two entire threads to counter the dozens of B.S. threads out there! musicblind Dec 2016 #19

Lol NWCorona Dec 2016 #27

How many threads saying BS would have won? mcar Dec 2016 #37

More than two but most are written by people I never heard of NWCorona Dec 2016 #50

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #13

And you are absolutely correct. The only thing Sanders accomplished by smearing Hillary R B Garr Dec 2016 #15

what were Hillary's talking points again? What was she selling pre GE? Cuz i listened to her JCanete Dec 2016 #140

K&R! n/t musicblind Dec 2016 #16

Bernie Sanders is a member of the Senate Democratic leadership and therefore Larkspur Dec 2016 #21

Sanders is a Democrat? NCTraveler Dec 2016 #24

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #30

Do you have any comments about what she actually posted? R B Garr Dec 2016 #33

Look at how you have to explain it. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #47

He was not elected to his "leadership" post, he was appointed by MADem Dec 2016 #121

You are mistaken. He wasn't elected by his Senate peers. He was APPOINTED as an MADem Dec 2016 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Dec 2016 #123

Is Al Franken?? Nitpicking over a name. lostnfound Dec 2016 #32

Yes, Franken is. He self identifies as one. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #149

That truly makes no sense. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #162

One of those you mention, like Sanders, isn't a Democrat. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #165

Yet I've heard him attacking the Democratic party, even recently. R B Garr Dec 2016 #26

Criticizing the failed policies of the Democratic Party is not bashing the Democratic Party Larkspur Dec 2016 #35

As well as criticizing those who caused a great divide within the party. R B Garr Dec 2016 #40

HRC bashed Obama in 2008 yet he won the primary and GE despite her Larkspur Dec 2016 #53

At least you finally admit what was obvious: Bernie's whole strategy R B Garr Dec 2016 #61

Apparently that means jettisoning the social justice issues that have served the Dems well. ehrnst Dec 2016 #100

Actually he's no longer a Dem. He went back to being an Independent. brush Dec 2016 #75

Better get on the horn to Chuck Schumer before he appoints him to another committee, then. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #96

Chuck Schumer handed Bernie his Senate seat which is why Bernie doesn't point a finger ehrnst Dec 2016 #103

So Bernie needed to be bought off? That's some fancy speculating there. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #108

Agreed. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #94

Sanders is not a Democrat DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #120

No it should not ...he is not a Democrat...he could be one...but chose not to...also this is the Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #161

Are we serious here? PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #22

Unfortunately. Welcome to DU where we eat our own. Tobin S. Dec 2016 #31

Yawn. It was an election, you do what you can to win. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #28

Been a member of DU for 12+ years, this post makes me want to leave lostnfound Dec 2016 #29

She lost for the same reasons Jeb Bush lost. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #36

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #38

Hey Mr. Boston - FairWinds Dec 2016 #39

Reality is that it was Hillary who had to take it easy on Bernie so as not R B Garr Dec 2016 #43

The word "reality" doesn't belong anywhere near your post. Jokerman Dec 2016 #46

Now that's funny. Apparently you didn't watch the debates. R B Garr Dec 2016 #55

"Are we on the side of working people or big-money interests" ehrnst Dec 2016 #72

There had to be something in his taxes that the MSM would have run with... bettyellen Dec 2016 #134

The "rape fantasy" essay. The "orgasm boxes." The lack of a job until his 40s. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #111

Wow, you sure can squeeze a lot of smears into just a few words . . FairWinds Dec 2016 #178

This discussion is just a distraction Politicub Dec 2016 #42

Making perfect the enemy of the good. WhiteTara Dec 2016 #44

Yep. And now we have horrific. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #73

As we knew we would. I wonder WhiteTara Dec 2016 #79

DU rec...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #45

People are "still making those arguments" about millions of fraudulent voters in California democrank Dec 2016 #48

She was called that for OVER 28 YEARS n2doc Dec 2016 #51

This panader0 Dec 2016 #66

The same asshats who called HRC "Goldwater Girl" are fine hailing Elizabeth Warran as a hero BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #54

I agree that it was ridiculous to hammer her over her political beliefs at 16-17. StevieM Dec 2016 #86

Well, two things. I agree, dragging out somebody's past that is that far removed is ungracious. JCanete Dec 2016 #142

Ignoring systemic racism and sexism in favor of "color-blind" and "gender-blind" solutions WILL BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #145

Well we shouldn't be color or gender blind. Who is promoting that? Warren or Sanders? I've never JCanete Dec 2016 #152

Sanders is all over the new demanding an end to "identity politics." BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #153

There is a refutation of this posted on these boards. He said we can't just offer identity politics. JCanete Dec 2016 #158

No, this did not harm Clinton. ananda Dec 2016 #56

Yeah, we need to stop catering to racists and,..what the hell are you talking about???? Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #57

There is nothing useful or productive in this post mountain grammy Dec 2016 #59

This entire forum is geared towards rehashing what went wrong in 2016. As such... stevenleser Dec 2016 #101

The best way to deal with them is to mock them. Call them Trump humpers, Bernie Bros, progressoid Dec 2016 #60

Yes... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #62

So did Trump and look at what it got him randr Dec 2016 #63

That first sentence was ...pretty complicated Kolesar Dec 2016 #64

"everything rigged against them (sound familiar)" Sounds VERY familiar...lots of that jmg257 Dec 2016 #67

And the civil war re-enactors are still at it. mac56 Dec 2016 #70

I still think Sanders is and was a HUGE benefit to the D party.We are weaker without him,much weaker Sunlei Dec 2016 #71

I disagree. I think that he is an outsider has turned the party back in terms of ehrnst Dec 2016 #74

an outsider? the mans been in our top government for decades! Sunlei Dec 2016 #81

He refused to join the party except temporarily to get establishment cred for his run. ehrnst Dec 2016 #84

He didn't want to split the vote and then run in the general election & hand republicans easy win. Sunlei Dec 2016 #87

And yet that was ultimately all that he accomplished anyway. He put Democrat against Democrat. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #112

He did not, Ds split themselves and still today they do the same thing. Sunlei Dec 2016 #119

So if Obama lost in 2008, it would be Hillary's fault for running against him in the primary? killbotfactory Dec 2016 #127

If Hillary had behaved like Bernie did, maybe. but Obama was a man, so there's that. ehrnst Dec 2016 #182

She probably would have been blamed democrattotheend Dec 2016 #190

It's true that Bernie is an outsider to the Corporocracy . . FairWinds Dec 2016 #179

I think, or I would like to think it's a guilty conscience-- ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #78

fagedaboutit! tiredtoo Dec 2016 #82

Whether it's accurate or not, the fact remains that Hillary and Donald were the two most distrusted Cal33 Dec 2016 #88

Yes, every democrat absolutely LOVED Hillary before Bernie came along... killbotfactory Dec 2016 #89

Thank you. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #91

Why is that bill a big deal? JHan Dec 2016 #98

Before Bernie, apparently no one needed to "love" Hillary for her to be an acceptable candidate. ehrnst Dec 2016 #104

Before Bernie democrats had no choice. killbotfactory Dec 2016 #110

I take it you don't understand the background to that bill? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #106

The bill was designed to take the issue of flag burning back to the supreme court killbotfactory Dec 2016 #109

What a facinating understanding of the bill. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #116

Another thing to add to the growing list of #WhyTrumpWon.. JHan Dec 2016 #128

You can say that a bill that people forgot about had no impact on the GE, because on the one hand it JCanete Dec 2016 #138

Yes, there is a conflicted history between Clintons and some progressives.. JHan Dec 2016 #141

always good to have a respectful discussion with you! I'm not sure it fits this sub-forum, but if JCanete Dec 2016 #151

feeling is mutual, good to have a calm discussion on things. And I'm up for a thread on trade..:) JHan Dec 2016 #159

"Senator Clinton, in Pander Mode" - NYT killbotfactory Dec 2016 #131

So you find an OP piece? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #139

It's over. Canadaexpat2 Dec 2016 #105

I never said one negative thing about Hillary. mahina Dec 2016 #114

K&R! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #122

Many Still Calling Her Names, Primary Rigged otohara Dec 2016 #130

Well good for you about never voting for a racist. The problem with that statement though, JCanete Dec 2016 #135

And a HUGE step is recognizing and acknowledginthat how people of varying ethnic and minority groups ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #143

Oh. Um, *who* was too important and too smart? JudyM Dec 2016 #156

Sanders' baseless charges hurt Clinton in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #163

K&R Cha Dec 2016 #173

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #185

Yes, she should have. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #186

KICK Cha Dec 2016 #197

"Why are people still making those arguments?" Orsino Dec 2016 #201

Ditto to everything you said. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #202