2016 Postmortem

quaker bill

(8,233 posts)

191. Here is your actual problem

Sun Dec 4, 2016, 09:38 PM

Dec 2016

Bernie stated the system was "rigged". Donald Trump said the system was "rigged".

Bernie lost the primary. Donald won his primary anyway.

The DWS emails were hacked and leaked.

The system was in fact "rigged" and Hillary won as the "rigged" system intended. To the extent that the RNC "rigged" their system, Donald beat it.

One person became the beneficiary of a "rigged" system, the other became the champion who could defeat the "rigged" system.

Now if the system was not "rigged" Hillary might have won the nomination anyway, but she might have lost. This is why DWS and her friends "rigged" the system. "rigging the system" got Hillary the Nom, and lost her the election, both at the same time.

end of story.

Now closing the primaries simply takes "rigged" up a notch. I do not see this as helpful.

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Looking back I, personally, see no benefit to Democrats from Sanders or his supporters [View all] Cary Dec 2016 OP

And I'm sorry, this wasn't meant to be an attack on Sanders' supporters per se Cary Dec 2016 #1

It did come off as more "It's all Bernie's fault" Uponthegears Dec 2016 #68

Unfortunately many Sanders supporters have postures it as such Cary Dec 2016 #71

It's hard to reconcile your perspective angrychair Dec 2016 #140

Pretty sure I'm part of the majority Cary Dec 2016 #145

With us or against us? angrychair Dec 2016 #162

I have said over and over that I am for Democrats and against divisiveness Cary Dec 2016 #184

Hey some of us do think Sen. Sanders caused the loss...with the bitter divided primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #202

"Refuses to join Democrats "? angrychair Dec 2016 #212

What do we do when you have a minority of us who demand to have their ideological way, totally? Cary Dec 2016 #227

That is very non-specific angrychair Dec 2016 #234

Everything is "very non-specific." Cary Dec 2016 #236

So what do we do? Cary Dec 2016 #228

This EffieBlack Dec 2016 #154

I think you're wrong! dembychoice Dec 2016 #208

I respect your opinion (but disagree) Uponthegears Dec 2016 #209

The only explanation I have for Trump is that Cary Dec 2016 #230

My point of view is as legitimate as anyone else's Cary Dec 2016 #229

Can't disagree with you Uponthegears Dec 2016 #243

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #117

And that mindset is why the Indys and cross-over Republicans ran away. Tim Kaine led to Loss TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #134

it was only worded that way NRQ891 Dec 2016 #139

Yeah that's real believable. "Fuck off + die" el_bryanto Dec 2016 #232

Hard to grow the party with that kind of attitude. Nt ALBliberal Dec 2016 #2

Yes, so terrible to want people to be positive. Cary Dec 2016 #5

yeah, positive like you. pangaia Dec 2016 #81

Why not start a Cary sucks thread? Cary Dec 2016 #85

nobody says Cary sucks. I don't say Cary sucks. Why would I start such a thread? pangaia Dec 2016 #92

I suggest you look up the word facetious Cary Dec 2016 #104

what forum would you like it in? nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #101

LOL !! pangaia Dec 2016 #105

You already have. /nt tonedevil Dec 2016 #102

Thank you Mr/Ms devil. pangaia Dec 2016 #107

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #3

Chuck Schumer seems to think it's a good idea to embrace many of Bernie's issues and ideas: think Dec 2016 #4

Hillary did that. radical noodle Dec 2016 #32

Nobody believed her though. That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #124

You think anyone could have done it without a fight? radical noodle Dec 2016 #176

I am speaking for myself. That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #183

You clearly said NOBODY believed her radical noodle Dec 2016 #185

Did she win the election? That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #186

You're going around in circles. Cary Dec 2016 #244

That's a wise public posture from a canny politician. lapucelle Dec 2016 #88

Chuck Schumer is trying to erase his eff-up about "moderate republicans" replacing blue-collar votes That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #126

The interests Bernie embaraced have been longstanding issues that many Democrats embrace. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #204

This is odd Uponthegears Dec 2016 #6

That's the point. Cary Dec 2016 #8

We had a closed causus here in Iowa. stone space Dec 2016 #7

Fine. I have nothing against Bernie. Cary Dec 2016 #9

Your OP directly counters that statement. Nt dionysus Dec 2016 #199

This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #201

My error Cary Dec 2016 #214

We had a closed primary election here in NY lapucelle Dec 2016 #94

NY isn't exactly the shining example of how things should be done, though. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #173

Really? Why not? lapucelle Dec 2016 #187

I more meant the inability to switch party long before the election. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #189

It is not difficult at all to change party affiliation in NY. lapucelle Dec 2016 #195

I agree 100%. asuhornets Dec 2016 #10

It's Official re: Millennials otohara Dec 2016 #115

I knew it...They weren't even born doing the Clinton years..nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #119

So they were born in the GWB or Reagan years? NobodyHere Dec 2016 #172

They were babies during the Clinton years. They believed what they heard in the media...nt asuhornets Dec 2016 #178

That's my read exactly. NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #160

I just don't get it. Whatever Bernie promised, they definitely will not be getting it now. asuhornets Dec 2016 #161

It's fascinating to read sites like JPR ... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #177

Yeah, he "dissed" Democrats for years by being one of the few SOLID liberal votes... Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2016 #219

... NanceGreggs Dec 2016 #220

Not all states require voters to select a Political Party at voter registration time Larkspur Dec 2016 #11

The same is true for Texas but when you vote in the first primary of a cycle, you are locked in Gothmog Dec 2016 #54

Are you committed to that party for life or until the next primary year? Larkspur Dec 2016 #82

Ds could pay for and run their own primaries in such states stopbush Dec 2016 #90

I thought the DNC controlled who gets to vote lapucelle Dec 2016 #111

I wish every state stopped allowing those who are not registered to vote in the primary. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #206

States do stop unregistered voters from voting. Larkspur Dec 2016 #211

Well sure is great for Bernie to caucus with the Dems. Thankful the Dem leadership has a more ALBliberal Dec 2016 #12

What will closed primaries accomplish? TXCritter Dec 2016 #13

What I'm really disconcerted about is the JPR kind of stuff Cary Dec 2016 #14

Why? TXCritter Dec 2016 #17

Because it's mostly lies Cary Dec 2016 #20

You do realize that Democrats lie too... chwaliszewski Dec 2016 #39

Lying is part of being human ok? katsy Dec 2016 #59

Correct Cary Dec 2016 #72

Bernie lied about releasing his tax records.... and that's actually relevant, since Trump bettyellen Dec 2016 #77

Sounds right to me Cary Dec 2016 #79

"Just saying" what, exactly? Cary Dec 2016 #65

There are plenty of lies right here, too, Cary. Pushed repeatedly. And repeatedly. We need JudyM Dec 2016 #128

We lost WI, MI and PA by what? Cary Dec 2016 #131

You could say any number of things would've made the difference. More than a few things she JudyM Dec 2016 #133

Bull. It is his fault. Trump thanked Bernie for giving him his ammo against Clinton. R B Garr Dec 2016 #222

Democrats need to pick the nominees of the Democratic Party Gothmog Dec 2016 #56

I don't see how that helps TXCritter Dec 2016 #73

I saw the response and disagreed with it strongly Gothmog Dec 2016 #122

I can't say it better than this TXCritter Dec 2016 #194

That post is also weak and does not convince me at all Gothmog Dec 2016 #213

I could say the same. TXCritter Dec 2016 #215

I was a delegate to the national convention and to deal with bernie supporters Gothmog Dec 2016 #223

If you are the manager of a baseball team... NeoConsSuck Dec 2016 #190

And I don't claim to know. It just sounded right to me. Cary Dec 2016 #18

What I hear you saying is that you want to become the Green Party TXCritter Dec 2016 #24

No. I just don't want people who claim to be Democrats feeding me Republican b.s. Cary Dec 2016 #31

So you favor the echo chamber. TXCritter Dec 2016 #51

I guess since you decree it, then it must be so. Cary Dec 2016 #74

Sure. Have your opinion. TXCritter Dec 2016 #75

Let people who hate Democrats go elsewhere Cary Dec 2016 #78

There are 65,000,000 voters in that echo chamber. lapucelle Dec 2016 #97

And apparently that wasn't enough. TXCritter Dec 2016 #116

It was more than enough. lapucelle Dec 2016 #129

Let me make sure I understand this TXCritter Dec 2016 #169

One plus about Bernie is that he is leading the fight against Trump flamingdem Dec 2016 #15

Funny the only two people out there kacekwl Dec 2016 #57

yeah, that struck me also... pangaia Dec 2016 #87

...and we have a winner! Go Bernie Go!! nt Lucky Luciano Dec 2016 #123

+100000 azmom Dec 2016 #166

Yep. Everyone else is keeping their powder dry. You know, for GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #180

He should. He helped WhiteTara Dec 2016 #152

Lots of reasons TRUMP may end up in kacekwl Dec 2016 #167

He offered to work with Trump... Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #205

A party in distress is one PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #16

closed primaries would IMO help speed up a more viable 3rd Party n/t RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #19

So what? Cary Dec 2016 #21

I did not say it would be good or bad however RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #23

I'll believe it when I see it Cary Dec 2016 #27

I was replying to Closing the Dem (and Repub) Primaries RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #36

I have to disagree. If Clinton lost to Trump with all of his negatives... That Guy 888 Dec 2016 #136

we dont know but RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #168

There will never be a real viable 3rd party that lasts more than one election cycle BzaDem Dec 2016 #50

people didn't give a shit about what party Sanders was. If he ran as independent he would have split Sunlei Dec 2016 #22

were there a lot of unreal people who voted for her in the primaries? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #25

I don't know I went primary for Sanders because I wanted his message heard, then I voted Hilary. Sunlei Dec 2016 #34

she and sanders would have made an incoherent team. you cannot pick a vp who for months La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #38

sorry, I do not agree. They're both team players. as others have told me. moot point now. Sunlei Dec 2016 #49

Then why try to hijack the Party? Cary Dec 2016 #30

He didn't hijack Republicans, they let him in and love that he's president today. Sunlei Dec 2016 #35

Calling it hijacking is subjective. Exilednight Dec 2016 #112

There was no hijacking. Senator Sanders saltpoint Dec 2016 #143

I'm not a real people? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #45

I meant 'real people' like the people of detroit, 90,000 blank ballots. Or Flint, more thousands Sunlei Dec 2016 #67

Idk but for me personally, being anthing but a big tent party means aspiring to be gop katsy Dec 2016 #26

A few of my ex-friends went so far as to swear that Hillary Clinton was a criminal Cary Dec 2016 #29

And all of mine showed ip for HRC! katsy Dec 2016 #41

was terrible the unfair treatment Hillary got from so very many people. worse than even Obama got. Sunlei Dec 2016 #44

So so very true. katsy Dec 2016 #53

I don't want anyone ignored Cary Dec 2016 #33

Agreed. katsy Dec 2016 #43

I agree that open primaries are stupid radical noodle Dec 2016 #28

Looking back, I personally, see no benefit to Democrats from Clinton or her supporters. SoCalMusicLover Dec 2016 #37

You do not want a third party that attracts liberals away from the Democratic Party, and then JCanete Dec 2016 #40

Democrats voted for Bernie because he fought for progressive policies many "Democrats" wouldn't yurbud Dec 2016 #42

Not sure I entirely agree but nothing bad about what younwru wrote BigBadDem Dec 2016 #46

So, those of us who dared to support him in the primaries are just to leave YOUR Bettie Dec 2016 #47

Bettie, kacekwl Dec 2016 #61

Yes. OnionPatch Dec 2016 #165

I had and still have a problem with Bernie jumping RoccoR2 Dec 2016 #48

I strongly agree that we need closed primaries Gothmog Dec 2016 #52

We can't be a party for left leaning independents and Democrats...join the party Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #55

If this is just an argument about closed primaries, Sanders isn't a compelling case. David Clark is. RAFisher Dec 2016 #58

I was initially for Bernie because his positions on almost every issue were most similar to mine. diane in sf Dec 2016 #60

Party in distress BlindTiresias Dec 2016 #62

This is a prime example. Cary Dec 2016 #64

Whiny? BlindTiresias Dec 2016 #138

You're the one doing the whining. The Democratic saltpoint Dec 2016 #146

You're lucky I have no power to wish people into the corn field.... Cary Dec 2016 #149

I grew up around corn fields, Cary. saltpoint Dec 2016 #150

Obviously you have no idea what I'm talking about. Cary Dec 2016 #156

I think it may be that you are saltpoint Dec 2016 #157

I do not liquid diamond Dec 2016 #63

Had Sanders run as an independent, saltpoint Dec 2016 #151

The benefit I offer is my vote. But if the dems don't want it . . . CrispyQ Dec 2016 #66

I know people who shit talked and posted Brietbart smears about HRC and ultimately voted for her ... bettyellen Dec 2016 #80

I offered my vote. LP2K12 Dec 2016 #69

Not sure what exactly is your point here ProfessorPlum Dec 2016 #70

If I lumped you I'm sorry Cary Dec 2016 #76

You lumped a hella lot of people, dude. Raster Dec 2016 #83

Well, dude, I tried my best Cary Dec 2016 #86

Not worth the effort. Raster Dec 2016 #91

Then why put in the "effort" polluting my attempts at discussion? Cary Dec 2016 #99

Sort of like claiming Sanders supporters hate the party like you've done in this thread? mythology Dec 2016 #174

THIS X 1000 stopbush Dec 2016 #84

I'm an example of a benefit. retrowire Dec 2016 #89

I have no objective evidence Cary Dec 2016 #96

She certainly had a lot against her. I can't disagree. Nt retrowire Dec 2016 #110

Resistance first. Inner party politics later. crosinski Dec 2016 #93

Not necessary .... just another part of the circular firing squad nt Persondem Dec 2016 #95

The Democratic Party is not a parliamentary type party. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #98

It's a private organization Cary Dec 2016 #100

But my point is if you ask 100 people what a Democrat is, you might receive 60 different answers. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #103

And my point is the party can do what it wants Cary Dec 2016 #106

True, as Sanders workers found out. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #108

'Some people feel entitled. They're mistaken.' NRQ891 Dec 2016 #130

I'm so happy for you Cary Dec 2016 #132

as am I nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #135

Respectfully disagree with every portion of this post hueymahl Dec 2016 #109

We need Same Day registration, open primaries, early voting, and a national holiday to vote. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #113

I supported Hillary but I'm getting into blame game RandySF Dec 2016 #114

lulz Rex Dec 2016 #118

'Looking back I, personally, see no benefit to Democrats from HILLARY or her supporters.' BlueProgressive Dec 2016 #120

Damn straight! hueymahl Dec 2016 #141

Orwell's 'Animal Farm' is a good read for anyone who is concerned with how we got here nt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #121

Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #125

Why we need a new Democratic Party in this age of Trump -- and what we need it to do.Robert Reich elleng Dec 2016 #127

Plus 1. The OP should give this a saltpoint Dec 2016 #142

Thanks, saltpoint. elleng Dec 2016 #147

You chose a great piece. It would go saltpoint Dec 2016 #148

Thanks. Will repost. elleng Dec 2016 #153

George W and Jeb Bush hurt Hillary as well NRQ891 Dec 2016 #137

Oh good fucking gawd. Iggo Dec 2016 #144

I believe in closed primaries and glad we have them in NY, but... hrmjustin Dec 2016 #155

States decide how their primaries or caucuses proceed. BainsBane Dec 2016 #158

ABSOLUTELY - closed primaries!!! DrDan Dec 2016 #159

Most of Sanders' supporters are Democrats democrattotheend Dec 2016 #163

Would be nice if there were more FDR Democrats running lostnfound Dec 2016 #164

Amen to that! PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #170

I dont fully agree. Internationalist Dec 2016 #171

Trying to make primaries non-competitive is a surefire recipe to lose. SpareribSP Dec 2016 #175

Fine. Close the Primaries, and open the debates. We need more choices in GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #179

Nope. Non viable candidates should have no platform. Nt duffyduff Dec 2016 #181

Then don't complain if a Primary echo chamber doesn't put a strong GE candidate on the ticket. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2016 #182

Oh gee, republicans had how many candidates in the primary this time? LisaL Dec 2016 #198

IIRC he also won the general election too. Glassunion Dec 2016 #240

We should have run Joe Biden obliviously Dec 2016 #188

Here is your actual problem quaker bill Dec 2016 #191

Please stop A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2016 #193

Hard to say... since he wasn't on the ticket FBaggins Dec 2016 #192

Yea, he just lost the primary. LisaL Dec 2016 #197

Exactly. Far less embarrassing. n/t FBaggins Dec 2016 #203

You don't know what you're talking about. This sanders supporter dionysus Dec 2016 #196

I agree with you. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #200

Whether you supported Sen. Sanders or not( I did not and admit I dislike him at this point), Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #207

I do. Orsino Dec 2016 #210

Other than needing them to win an election. Exilednight Dec 2016 #216

Needing people who would cut my throat and stab me in the back? Cary Dec 2016 #217

What exactly is the "radical left"? Exilednight Dec 2016 #218

The word "radical" is well-defined Cary Dec 2016 #225

It's a subjective word. what I view as radical probably will Exilednight Dec 2016 #233

So what if it's subjective? Cary Dec 2016 #235

"I'm not all that interested in debating the matter" Without debate nothing Exilednight Dec 2016 #237

Actually it's been the other way around Cary Dec 2016 #238

I'm not the one calling people radicals who disagree with me. Exilednight Dec 2016 #239

Then good luck EVER winning again. alarimer Dec 2016 #221

lol, at least this is a clear message that you don't care about winning. R B Garr Dec 2016 #224

Nice to know you R B Garr Cary Dec 2016 #226

Nice to know you, too, Cary. R B Garr Dec 2016 #241

I don't think the divisiveness is going away Cary Dec 2016 #242

I also think many are invested in the divisiveness, and it sure looks like R B Garr Dec 2016 #245

Absolutely Cary Dec 2016 #246

You should have just stuck with that last line el_bryanto Dec 2016 #231

Members of the Democratic Party should be picking the Democratic nominee Gothmog Dec 2016 #247