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BzaDem

(11,142 posts)
45. The statistical argument doesn't work without a perfect random sample.
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 05:10 PM
Dec 2016

Furthermore, the sample in an exit poll (or any poll) is NEVER perfectly random. In fact, it isn't even close.

Exit pollsters do not sample voters at every precinct. Instead, they pick precincts in advance (trying to get a representative subset of precincts that are representative of the state as a whole). But this is just guesswork. Precincts that look representative based off of previous voting data might be extremely unrepresentative of the electorate in the current election. For example, in past elections, voting was not as polarized by education levels as it was in this election. So a good subset of precincts in the past might be skewed towards lower or higher education levels voters, in a way that didn't matter in 2012 but did matter in 2016. And this is before we start talking about the incredibly low response rate (of all polls, including exit polls), which significantly increases the probability of differential non-response bias.

You are taking a supposed anamoly in the data (that actually has very credible benign explanations), saying that it would be statistically improbable under perfect assumptions that don't exist in reality, and then immediately jumping to the conclusion that systemic fraud is the explanation. But you should apply the same rigor to the alternative explanation (fraud) as you are applying to analyzing the anamoly.

Due to the decentralized nature of our elections, a systemic conspiracy would require tens of thousands of people to succeed at flipping votes in some way, and not get caught. Let's assume for the sake of argument that tens of thousands of people DID attempt to pull off a systemic conspiracy. Each one of them has some probability of getting caught. Let's further assume for the sake of argument that the probability of getting caught is small, say 1%. What are the odds that (say) 10000 people succeed in not getting caught with a 1% detection rate? Approximately 1 over 10 to the 44th power.

This should be the narrative Jean-Jacques Roussea Dec 2016 #1
because it's the truth. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #2
Actually, it is off by quite a bit. Coyotl Dec 2016 #39
your last sentence is so SPOT ON, it's haunting. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #46
How could the vote be hacked MichMary Dec 2016 #3
Central tabulators are. triron Dec 2016 #4
But-- MichMary Dec 2016 #5
OK if you are in such disbelief, read this (brief) triron Dec 2016 #6
No. They did not do hand recounts, they merely used optical scanners. You wouldn't need an "army" synergie Dec 2016 #33
Because there are apparently a lot of people who just can't believe dionysus Dec 2016 #41
If people spend all their time, energy, and money .... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #42
Thats the attitude i like! This "it's the end of the world our lives are ruined1!!1eleventy!" dionysus Dec 2016 #44
Please don't ask awkward questions like that mythology Dec 2016 #7
Also this triron Dec 2016 #8
And this triron Dec 2016 #9
Thank you for these links. bookmarked. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #11
And this triron Dec 2016 #10
do a few searches on the subject, and you will see. it is totally possible, in multiple ways, and TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #20
The disks and cards that they are loaded with could be hacked. synergie Dec 2016 #32
there... are... four... lights 0rganism Dec 2016 #12
The polls were MORE WRONG in 2012. Were you complaining then? BzaDem Dec 2016 #13
You are referring only to national polls triron Dec 2016 #14
Same thing with swing state polls. BzaDem Dec 2016 #15
All off in the same direction (or at least almost all)? triron Dec 2016 #16
Polls are often wrong in the same direction. State polls underestimated Obama by 2.5% on average. BzaDem Dec 2016 #25
I was referring triron Dec 2016 #26
Exit polls had Gore winning Alabama and Georgia, and Bill winning Indiana and Texas. BzaDem Dec 2016 #27
You have a link or reference to this data? triron Dec 2016 #28
btw Richard Charnin triron Dec 2016 #30
Here is a link triron Dec 2016 #29
States the exits said Gore won that he lost: AL AR AZ CO FL GA MO NC NV TN TX VA BzaDem Dec 2016 #31
I will grant that some exit polls may be wrong triron Dec 2016 #37
The statistical argument doesn't work without a perfect random sample. BzaDem Dec 2016 #45
They've been doing this incrementally for years now. Brownback in Kansas, even McTurtle LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #36
all the statistical models this year were WAY off Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #17
That is a story pushed by MSM as well. triron Dec 2016 #18
um, because it's TRUE Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #19
um, no it's not LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #21
you're *joking*, right? LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #22
Are you saying that the polls were less wrong in 2012 than in 2016? BzaDem Dec 2016 #24
No. I am saying the election was rigged this time...why conflate two cycles? LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #38
I think you're missing the point SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #47
Oh it's entirely possible LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #48
LOL SickOfTheOnePct Dec 2016 #49
Funny how that goes. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #50
knr again triron Dec 2016 #23
Wow, looks like I might be psychic. nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #34
see post 47 in http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512622637 triron Dec 2016 #35
As for optical scanners and tabulators, wikipedia has this: triron Dec 2016 #40
triron, you are an inspiration on this...THANK YOU!!!!! nt LaydeeBug Dec 2016 #43
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