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2016 Postmortem

LonePirate

(13,893 posts)

18. We need to abandon the lie that those manufacturing jobs can come back to the rust belt.

Reply to realmirage (Original post)

Sun Dec 18, 2016, 06:03 PM

Dec 2016

They aren't and anyone who thinks so is an idiot.

Let's pretend economic conditions exist for a factory to reopen or to rebuild in Blue Collar City, Ohio. The owner of that factory will automate as much as possible in order to reduce labor expenses. That's economic reality, not the fantasy that the jobs will return.

Nate says the jobs are not coming back: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/manufacturing-jobs-are-never-coming-back/

MIT says the jobs are not coming back: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/602869/manufacturing-jobs-arent-coming-back/

The Financial Times says technology is responsible for the jobs loss: https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62

Fortune says automation is responsible for the job losses: http://fortune.com/2016/11/08/china-automation-jobs/

NPR did an interview with economist Michael Hicks and he says manufacturing jobs are lost mostly due to technology, not globalization: http://www.npr.org/2016/12/10/505079140/economist-says-manufacturing-job-loss-driven-by-advancing-technology-not-globali

Those jobs are never going to return due to technology/automation/robots and we should stop pretending that they will return.

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I fear Democrats are laying the groundwork for future losses by refusing to learn from defeat [View all] realmirage Dec 2016 OP

You might like WhiteTara Dec 2016 #1

keep laying that groundwork. Maybe you like defeat. I don't realmirage Dec 2016 #2

Well, join the Party WhiteTara Dec 2016 #3

Again, address the OP or don't bother replying realmirage Dec 2016 #8

Yes, Sir! WhiteTara Dec 2016 #15

address the OP or stop replying, this is my last to you realmirage Dec 2016 #16

Obeisances to you My Overlord! WhiteTara Dec 2016 #17

lol. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #200

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2016 #204

Some of us did derby378 Dec 2016 #137

Because one can't participate in an online forum AND engage with their local party, too. CrispyQ Dec 2016 #158

agreed. n/t. okieinpain Dec 2016 #201

Maybe you like defeat? did you vote for bernie? because she beat the shit of bernie and his bro's! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #56

I voted for Hillary, who got beat as well realmirage Dec 2016 #62

Yet she lost to trump.. in the election that really counts, the general election. dionysus Dec 2016 #71

And then she got beat by Trump and his Bros in the electoral college where it counts Feeling the Bern Dec 2016 #81

+1...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #5

Really? Crunchy Frog Dec 2016 #23

True WhiteTara Dec 2016 #26

The candidate just lost the election to Donald Trump. Kentonio Dec 2016 #171

Well, if you discount FBI, Russian hackers, WhiteTara Dec 2016 #190

We lost to Donald Trump for gods sake! Kentonio Dec 2016 #192

Okay. How would you solve this WhiteTara Dec 2016 #194

A few steps to get us started.. Kentonio Dec 2016 #195

Good ideas WhiteTara Dec 2016 #196

Number 2, the platform. Kentonio Dec 2016 #197

How do you plan to acheive your goals? WhiteTara Dec 2016 #198

Hopefully by getting people to stop fighting each other and rally around a common set of goals. Kentonio Dec 2016 #199

Worthy goals, but how WhiteTara Dec 2016 #210

Thank You So Very Much Sherman A1 Dec 2016 #92

Back at you! WhiteTara Dec 2016 #131

YES! 'If this were baseball we'd be wondering what trades we need to make elleng Dec 2016 #4

+10101 golfguru Dec 2016 #33

"If we think there's nothing wrong with our strategy after just losing to a horrible jackass..." CrispyQ Dec 2016 #159

Yes indeed! elleng Dec 2016 #163

That would be awesome but so many are claiming it was the TPP and jobs bettyellen Dec 2016 #6

yup feingold and strickland did worse than Clinton JI7 Dec 2016 #12

Wrong again! KPN Dec 2016 #14

Clinton won voters concerned about economy, Trump won voters concerned about terrorism emulatorloo Dec 2016 #216

there probably won't be anymore elections. putitinD Dec 2016 #7

It's sad how divided this board and the Dems are True Dough Dec 2016 #9

Yes. Thanks. elleng Dec 2016 #10

Definitely! If dems sit and argue, then Putin and Trump are the victors now and into the RKP5637 Dec 2016 #13

I think a lot of people are in the middle realmirage Dec 2016 #11

No new message will cure the problem unless... golfguru Dec 2016 #44

So trump officially snagged the Orange Man (tm) crown from boehner? dionysus Dec 2016 #77

To my eyes, Boehner was color of over-ripe tomato going bad golfguru Dec 2016 #114

those 94 million Americans who think they reached the end of the road elmac Dec 2016 #89

That is correct UNLESS....the orange man golfguru Dec 2016 #110

I agree wholeheartedly realmirage Dec 2016 #183

Orange man conflated trade balance with trade policy all year.. JHan Dec 2016 #123

I do not think you are anywhere near the truth golfguru Dec 2016 #132

I am very much speaking the truth. JHan Dec 2016 #135

You simply can not ignore the direct linkage golfguru Dec 2016 #138

but I never denied outsourcing. JHan Dec 2016 #143

You are under a basic mis-conception that robots will take over golfguru Dec 2016 #146

How many millions of jobs are we going to pretend didn't disappear? JHan Dec 2016 #153

A lot of Democrats are automation deniers. immoderate Dec 2016 #185

Stop saying technology is to blame for lost jobs realmirage Dec 2016 #205

lol, no I won't stop saying it..You did share a great link and the study looks interesting but.. JHan Dec 2016 #211

Sadly, i think returning focus to the middle class IS a major overhaul these days... dionysus Dec 2016 #74

The Democrats need to remember the middle class realmirage Dec 2016 #184

Hillary WAS the middle NCDem777 Dec 2016 #217

Exactly! But there's a cohort here that KPN Dec 2016 #19

Exactly, why is FDR a bad word here? FDR is who we are realmirage Dec 2016 #186

FDR is not a "bad word" here. Total strawman. emulatorloo Dec 2016 #206

I don't understand the people that think nothing has to change. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #35

You'd think that was common sense. Apparently not for many realmirage Dec 2016 #187

Yup. This Arazi Dec 2016 #57

Even if cheating was exposed though, it doesn't mean our dionysus Dec 2016 #73

I agree, we need to do both. OnionPatch Dec 2016 #117

Logically there's no middle ground to hacking, this post on its face makes little sense IMHO uponit7771 Dec 2016 #118

We need to abandon the lie that those manufacturing jobs can come back to the rust belt. LonePirate Dec 2016 #18

The links you posted are filled with bad science realmirage Dec 2016 #22

THIS!!!! KPN Dec 2016 #27

You're the one being conned if you don't know the difference between good science and bad science. LonePirate Dec 2016 #28

You didn't read the link n my OP did you? realmirage Dec 2016 #30

I read it and dismissed it because of the numerous gaping holes in it. LonePirate Dec 2016 #39

Your response indicates you need to look again realmirage Dec 2016 #46

You do understand that mechanization is more than just robots, don't you? Because the Squinch Dec 2016 #208

Yup. sfwriter Dec 2016 #31

Who the hell here is saying those jobs are coming back? KPN Dec 2016 #24

This is EXACTLY right realmirage Dec 2016 #29

"all those sources are wrong" does not address any of the points in the links provided by L. Pirate JHan Dec 2016 #32

Read #44 golfguru Dec 2016 #45

Every ESTABLISHMENT, INCUMBENT, republican won against the Democrats running for Senate in those still_one Dec 2016 #20

++++++++ I agree. skylucy Dec 2016 #34

How will we turn it around sarisataka Dec 2016 #53

Excellent post. LenaBaby61 Dec 2016 #84

"In Wisconsin, Russ Feingold lost by a greater percentage than Hillary. Wisconsin reelected Scott Cha Dec 2016 #141

+1 betsuni Dec 2016 #148

Well said. If we are going to improve our party we need to be fact-based emulatorloo Dec 2016 #207

"If this were baseball..." oasis Dec 2016 #21

The ones who want to win ARE putting the team first realmirage Dec 2016 #25

When a player joins a team he's required to listen to the leadership. oasis Dec 2016 #49

Ask the biggest losers in baseball if they're "team players" realmirage Dec 2016 #51

Democrats needed everyone on board to win. Didn't have it. oasis Dec 2016 #61

The leaders we have now aren't getting the job done. realmirage Dec 2016 #63

Again: Team play is they key to success. nt oasis Dec 2016 #66

So you'd keep a manager that kept losing? realmirage Dec 2016 #69

Nah, let's keep going down the same road. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2016 #36

Those who want the Party to change look at our losses and ask why? jalan48 Dec 2016 #37

Does that explain why Russ Feingold and Zypher Teachout lost? Does that explain why every still_one Dec 2016 #40

Those in power never want change realmirage Dec 2016 #41

People were looking for change... kentuck Dec 2016 #38

And we'd better have the right message by then realmirage Dec 2016 #42

That doesn't hold water when every establishment, republican, incumbent, won against those still_one Dec 2016 #43

Unless they voted down ticket. kentuck Dec 2016 #100

I wasn't referring to the trump supporters. I was referring to the self-identified progressives who still_one Dec 2016 #122

Lessons Learned Pabz Dec 2016 #47

Can you be less cryptic and more direct realmirage Dec 2016 #50

She has 3 million votes MFM008 Dec 2016 #55

It doesn't matter. Pabz Dec 2016 #58

Oh no MFM008 Dec 2016 #76

Really? Why did Russ Feingold and Zyper Teachout Lose? Why did every swing state Democrat running still_one Dec 2016 #78

Every Senate race voted the same as President. Hassan and Hillary both won NH by a hair. jfern Dec 2016 #209

That is where the narriative breaks down. Those that won the Senate races in still_one Dec 2016 #212

2 Minnesota members of congress who endorsed Bernie won in heavily Trump districts jfern Dec 2016 #214

I was primarily talking about the Senate races in the swing states. The still_one Dec 2016 #215

Tell us the "story", or continue to cower behind implication LanternWaste Dec 2016 #162

Cleveland Indians scored more runs than Chicago Cubs in WS golfguru Dec 2016 #213

What defeat? sarisataka Dec 2016 #48

"Saddest of all" realmirage Dec 2016 #54

I keep saying that & i get accused of not taking things "seriously" 7962 Dec 2016 #104

I really don't want us to become Alex Jones realmirage Dec 2016 #105

"If you hate somethin, don't you do it too?" E. Vedder. dionysus Dec 2016 #79

I will not just lay down MFM008 Dec 2016 #52

As long as we use the electoral college, than yes, we lost. dionysus Dec 2016 #82

I cant help it if YOU werent inspired MFM008 Dec 2016 #147

You're confusing me with a trump voter, for some reason. dionysus Dec 2016 #150

I fear we are wasting valuable time paying attention to concern trolls, too. Just sayin'... n/t TygrBright Dec 2016 #59

Address the OP and quit trolling realmirage Dec 2016 #64

LOL bravenak Dec 2016 #67

Who are you calling a troll? sheshe2 Dec 2016 #125

I'm calling a troll the person who came into my thread and insulted me. That's a troll. realmirage Dec 2016 #126

Ouch. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #133

Unbelievable. Kentonio Dec 2016 #172

Exactly. Thanks kentonio. Hypocrites are everywhere these days realmirage Dec 2016 #191

I don't need your permission to stand up for myself realmirage Dec 2016 #193

So you know, the person was insinuating that my OP was concern trolling. Hence, my response realmirage Dec 2016 #130

I just answered your last response, I am done. sheshe2 Dec 2016 #134

I second this! bravenak Dec 2016 #68

Yes, I'm concerned that we lost because I prefer winning to losing. Perhaps you don't realmirage Dec 2016 #72

Yes yes yes. I know. The team that gets three million more votes loses. The team that does not wins. bravenak Dec 2016 #75

You can win in a fantasy election, and lose in the real election realmirage Dec 2016 #87

Ok. So who are you willing to lose to get those rural voters? bravenak Dec 2016 #102

We don't have to lose anybody! We strengthen our economic message to the middle class realmirage Dec 2016 #108

They believe that blacks are taking their jobs. That offends me. bravenak Dec 2016 #113

Hmmm sheshe2 Dec 2016 #127

Well, damn! bravenak Dec 2016 #129

Would you be kind enough to point out in that article who exactly it is who believes that? Kentonio Dec 2016 #173

Google it. I did and I found many people saying it on actual video bravenak Dec 2016 #178

Many people? Enought to account for the entire Trump and non-voting groups? Kentonio Dec 2016 #189

You see what happens when you try to take away the excuses. HassleCat Dec 2016 #60

Exactly. You'd think losing was painful enough to motivate realmirage Dec 2016 #65

Superb post. dionysus Dec 2016 #70

Those jobs are not coming back. joshcryer Dec 2016 #80

Check out.... zentrum Dec 2016 #83

Hopefully the next chair can clean up the DNC madville Dec 2016 #85

Orange Hitler claimed it was rigged treestar Dec 2016 #86

And they found something other than the usual errors? No? They proved it was rigged? No? realmirage Dec 2016 #98

It was worth investigating treestar Dec 2016 #99

an investigation is not proof of anything realmirage Dec 2016 #103

well it does show there is SOME evidence treestar Dec 2016 #106

Um, try yes. The Russians actually did interfere. As well as Comey. kcr Dec 2016 #156

First post in 2 years crazycatlady Dec 2016 #88

Totally agree with you, great points realmirage Dec 2016 #91

I like this list and I'll add to it. phylny Dec 2016 #124

I'll also ad spend more money on digital advertising crazycatlady Dec 2016 #128

Agreed Sherman A1 Dec 2016 #90

Glad to hear I'm not the only one realmirage Dec 2016 #95

My Pleasure Sherman A1 Dec 2016 #151

Agree 100%!!! I am sick and tired of excuses... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #93

"Losers make excuses. Winners assume power. I'll be damned if I'm going to be a victim." realmirage Dec 2016 #94

Trump scandals ineffective but one letter from Comey + a trickle of hacked/doctored emails.... CousinIT Dec 2016 #96

So how did a guy with so many flaws beat us? realmirage Dec 2016 #101

A Twitter thread has some clues. (a lot actually) CousinIT Dec 2016 #115

Since when do we blame the victims of a crime for the actions of the criminals? baldguy Dec 2016 #97

How is the messaging not a problem? Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #144

"She wouldn't have been raped if only she hadn't been wearing that short skirt!" baldguy Dec 2016 #152

It's Management's fault shadowmayor Dec 2016 #107

Donald Trump is an ass....check. democrank Dec 2016 #109

I really agree- and we have a great chance to turn this around, if we can accept Yo_Mama Dec 2016 #111

Exactly - he won by using OUR OLD ECONOMIC PLATFORM realmirage Dec 2016 #119

Working Class Woman Will Rejoin the Party McKim Dec 2016 #112

This is exactly right realmirage Dec 2016 #120

If we go back to 1980, Democrats have lost 11 out of the 19 elections. Feeling the Bern Dec 2016 #116

I actually hear people telling me loyalty is more important than principle. It's insane realmirage Dec 2016 #121

Party over principle. Orwell would be proud to hear that shit. Feeling the Bern Dec 2016 #139

Doubling down on "deplorables" won't work any better than it did the first time BRToldschool Dec 2016 #136

Bringing in Brock and his band of internet trolls azmom Dec 2016 #140

You analyze but Democrats don't? taught_me_patience Dec 2016 #142

Oh here we go with the handwringing The Liberal Lion Dec 2016 #145

It's no secret what ails the party - the party needs to expand its appeal outside of the big cities Midwestern Democrat Dec 2016 #149

Agreed entirely, but too many seem to think anything un-city doesn't matter BRToldschool Dec 2016 #155

There are those in the The "un-city" ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #157

100% agreed hellofromreddit Dec 2016 #154

So, you want us to be better liars that Trump? Adrahil Dec 2016 #160

It can be difficult to see the difference between the analysis of after-action-reports and a "refusa LanternWaste Dec 2016 #161

K&R.. disillusioned73 Dec 2016 #164

Agree deist99 Dec 2016 #165

People should shut up about the electoral college. It's not going anywhere realmirage Dec 2016 #179

Thank you for your courage... NeoConsSuck Dec 2016 #166

Right on. Glad I'm not alone realmirage Dec 2016 #174

C-level types are destroying our country, so don't expect them to give a fuck. Rex Dec 2016 #167

The Party will have to change despite them. Or the next loss will wake them up realmirage Dec 2016 #175

I agree... Joe941 Dec 2016 #168

It would help me get over the loss if I felt more hopeful about realmirage Dec 2016 #176

I think I just need to stay off the 2016 board. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #182

I take long breaks and have started using the ignore button again realmirage Dec 2016 #188

Some DUers enjoy defeat IronLionZion Dec 2016 #169

I dared to point out that I don't have health insurance realmirage Dec 2016 #177

Do you live in a state that expanded Medicaid? IronLionZion Dec 2016 #181

Excellent thread, very much agree. Kentonio Dec 2016 #170

This thread reminds me of the old Spy magazine feature "Logrolling in our Time". lapucelle Dec 2016 #180

The best one is the determination to jettison the rural white males. HassleCat Dec 2016 #202

That one drives me batshit realmirage Dec 2016 #203

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