2016 Postmortem

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

72. Is there something WRONG with being anti-imperialist and anti-war?

Tue Dec 20, 2016, 08:31 PM

Dec 2016

We're never going to get a pacifist president, but we do need to work on the assumption that we're coming to the end of the time in which war can actually liberate anyone from oppression, can make anyone's life better(other than people who own stocks in weapons companies). It can be a defense of our "interests", but whose interests are those, really?

And is it any more legitimate for OUR country to seek to order the world around and impose our dominance on it(which is what imperialism is, effectively-and you can be an "imperialist" without setting up a formal colonial structure)than it is for anyone ELSE to do it? An empire is an empire is an empire...and the world really doesn't need empires anymore.

We need to defend the country from external attack...but we can't do anything more in the Arab/Muslim world by military means, and it should be our objective to actually CREATE non-violent methods of conflict resolution, if the world is to survive.

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A few observations on "progressives" I've noticed from this election [View all] Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 OP

We're about to enter a new, never before seen era of American politics. jalan48 Dec 2016 #1

I didn't mean to scapegoat progressives but the people I refer to here are a problem for Dems Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #3

We are in for a battle. The Progressives I know were active in marching for civil rights in the 60's jalan48 Dec 2016 #5

You are not conscious that you are scapegoating? Take a closer look at this patently scapegoating JudyM Dec 2016 #9

fair enough-- but I meant they are not the main reason we lost Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #10

The purpose of your post... to diss liberals. dionysus Dec 2016 #82

no no no, not at all! I'm a liberal! I'm trying to figure out what we can about liberals Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #85

You're doing a great job of discouraging us, if that's your objective. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #26

Those people, and Bernie, kept declaring that they were starting a movement brush Dec 2016 #28

and what... berksdem Dec 2016 #36

Not an answer. Where is the movement? brush Dec 2016 #39

and that... berksdem Dec 2016 #42

Not complicated, where is the movement Sanders and his supporters were supposed to . . . brush Dec 2016 #44

where was Clinton during the campaign in PA and Michigan? berksdem Dec 2016 #45

Ok, you keep not answering a question with vague anti-dem, pro-Bernie statements brush Dec 2016 #46

How.... berksdem Dec 2016 #50

If you have no info on the question about the nascent movement . . . brush Dec 2016 #51

LOL... berksdem Dec 2016 #54

It was nascent when it was being discussed. Apparently it has gone belly up . . . brush Dec 2016 #56

i answered it berksdem Dec 2016 #57

You did, huh? Clarity in writing issues? brush Dec 2016 #58

"Our Revolution" is the birth of the movement. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #73

The nascent anti-librral dems are.. basking in this election loss, it seems... dionysus Dec 2016 #83

Here: TCJ70 Dec 2016 #61

They had the "movement" @ 7am... Historic NY Dec 2016 #49

Woo them in if they have the right values. LiberalFighter Dec 2016 #63

"I didn't mean to scapegoat progressives" Raster Dec 2016 #70

Most of what they support is good. Ken Burch Dec 2016 #75

+ 1000 LiberalLovinLug Dec 2016 #77

Your "observations" seem really different from mine unc70 Dec 2016 #2

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say this was the case for all progressives Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #4

blah blah blah blah ...it's posts like this that turned many off to hillary bowens43 Dec 2016 #6

Just for the record oberliner Dec 2016 #7

I know two Bernie dudes who voted for trump La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #12

I know several Bernie men and women who voted for Hillary... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #15

I'm one... Yurovsky Dec 2016 #21

My reasoning as well. I did it, but with no joy. SlimJimmy Dec 2016 #41

perfectly stated... could not agree more. berksdem Dec 2016 #43

Right, my point is these Bernie to trump voters do exist La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #23

I know several Democrats who voted for Trump, they could not stand to vote for Hillary Nictuku Dec 2016 #29

I have no intention of jumping down anyones throat... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #48

one additional spot for worst: the guy who lost to the woman who lost to the guy who won. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #24

bingo! +1 berksdem Dec 2016 #38

I just watched Sarah Silverman interviewing Bernie Sanders about the election. betsuni Dec 2016 #8

To Bernie, if you're fighting for social causes, you're not a serious liberal. kcr Dec 2016 #11

It's what he said about abortion on Maddow La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2016 #13

Yep. I think his behavior since the election has really shown his true colors. kcr Dec 2016 #14

Thank you. nt cwydro Dec 2016 #17

You apparently managed to completely misunderstand the point he was making. Kentonio Dec 2016 #16

Oh, don't get me started on his speaking at Liberty University kcr Dec 2016 #18

Actually he doesn't think any of those things, but apparently simplistic thinking is popular now. Kentonio Dec 2016 #19

HUH? They are the enemy if they want to take away women's rights, because they disagree with us. Justice Dec 2016 #64

No, they are not the enemy. Kentonio Dec 2016 #65

Like I said. His point is wrong. kcr Dec 2016 #69

What is most likely to make a woman forced to make babies? Kentonio Dec 2016 #84

at least he was trying to berksdem Dec 2016 #40

Stop twisting Bernie's words. He clearly never said that realmirage Dec 2016 #22

Only his supporters are able to infer and translate accurately what he meant. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #25

He says it all the time. Some just don't pay attention. kcr Dec 2016 #68

huh? berksdem Dec 2016 #33

Totally agree Justice Dec 2016 #59

This is an excellent OP and discussion. Best one on this. Justice Dec 2016 #60

In real life, the BoBs are a tiny minority of Dems. duffyduff Dec 2016 #20

What evidence is there? HassleCat Dec 2016 #27

there is none... berksdem Dec 2016 #32

do you honestly think he doesn't feel that way? He's certainly hinted at it. Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #37

If you think Bernie is happy with Trump being elected, then you obviously don't know who Bernie is. PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #62

For many people, Bernie is just the guy who ruined things for Hillary. HassleCat Dec 2016 #66

sorry but talk... berksdem Dec 2016 #30

I'm not talking about all progressives, just a group that I know on Facebook who call themselves Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #35

gotcha and thanks for clarifying... berksdem Dec 2016 #47

Yes, thanks. I should also say I have called myself a progressive (though not so much lately) Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #53

And they might as well MFM008 Dec 2016 #31

that is my frustration, yes. Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #34

Started reading this thread True Dough Dec 2016 #52

sorry-- but I'm trying to figure out how to reach these people that should be voting with us Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #55

Most Democrats voted for her. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #67

But there is no "do over" True Dough Dec 2016 #71

Is there something WRONG with being anti-imperialist and anti-war? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #72

When one of our allies need our help which requires some sort of military aid what do we do? JHan Dec 2016 #78

Why shouldn't we be anti "big banks"? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #74

Interrestingly enough, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #76

Now you expect us to be against progressives? Really??? SAD!!!!!!! JoeOtterbein Dec 2016 #79

Not my point at all... my point was she the Dem nominee, and still many progressives Fast Walker 52 Dec 2016 #86

Most of my friends are more savvy politically and understand the three branches and loved Obama bettyellen Dec 2016 #80

Not the best hippie-punching ive seen... keep practising. dionysus Dec 2016 #81