2016 Postmortem

betsuni

(27,404 posts)

96. +1

Reply to forjusticethunders (Reply #80)

Tue Jan 10, 2017, 01:26 AM

Jan 2017

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

217 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

White progressive analysis of politics is fundamentally broken. [View all] forjusticethunders Jan 2017 OP

And don't forget the "war on drugs" TexasBushwhacker Jan 2017 #1

True on both. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #7

Yep and Yep. Iggo Jan 2017 #8

Yep Uponthegears Jan 2017 #20

Best damn post I've read on this site. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #2

agreed. JHan Jan 2017 #33

Except for this very jarring sentence brush Jan 2017 #57

My interpretation ... JHan Jan 2017 #76

Workers forming unions in low-pay countries is good for those workers but my fear... brush Jan 2017 #78

Sourcing production overseas has a lot of hidden costs forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #80

yep +++ JHan Jan 2017 #87

Thank you. That makes sense. brush Jan 2017 #89

+1 betsuni Jan 2017 #96

Absolutely Dem2 Jan 2017 #103

Who is going to buy a $2000 iPhone built in the USA BlueStateLib Jan 2017 #105

I phone Dem2 Jan 2017 #121

That is about how much it would cost NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #125

All u know is I haz iPhone? Dem2 Jan 2017 #149

I'm actually over 50 and, ironically... NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #185

Thanks for the clarification HRC2020 Jan 2017 #124

That language is fluff kenfrequed Jan 2017 #129

That describes "make perfect the enemy of good" to a "T" JHan Jan 2017 #135

No. kenfrequed Jan 2017 #145

That is certainly the way I interpreted it, but I'm happy to be educated on this matter if anyone JCanete Jan 2017 #151

the "non-binding" is important.. JHan Jan 2017 #176

I have always advocated for protectionism that has a basis on proper living standards of the workers JCanete Jan 2017 #178

Well, to be blunt.. JHan Jan 2017 #179

"the productivity of a HS worker here is greater than a low skilled worker in Vietnam" Garrett78 Jan 2017 #180

Off the top of my head.. JHan Jan 2017 #181

It seems infrastructure is key, in fact. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #183

lol..... JHan Jan 2017 #184

Nafta has been a complete and utter failure for Mexico. azmom Jan 2017 #186

I'd never argue it was perfect for Mexico: JHan Jan 2017 #188

You argued that Mexico's economy is better because of NAFTA azmom Jan 2017 #194

The reasons I don't judge it a complete failure... JHan Jan 2017 #198

I think it was a failure. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #207

I think that's a legitimate concern. What's the answer? Garrett78 Jan 2017 #153

First off we don't sign it. kenfrequed Jan 2017 #156

It may be fluff like you said previously, but the language is there. But will it be enforced? Garrett78 Jan 2017 #157

Not quite right kenfrequed Jan 2017 #166

Nations can and have, but... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #167

People say that about a lot of things. kenfrequed Jan 2017 #168

I don't have one. This is a terribly complex problem. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #169

Agreed Dem2 Jan 2017 #102

eloquently said HRC2020 Jan 2017 #122

No, the focus must be twofold: guillaumeb Jan 2017 #3

The problem is that this analysis is "right" but it's also tactically useless. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #9

Of course, the mortgage interest deduction TexasBushwhacker Jan 2017 #19

It is tactically necessary to frame the argument as based on race and class guillaumeb Jan 2017 #21

Do you actually believe that Sanders SUPPORTERS(I'm not talking about Bernie-he's just one voice) Ken Burch Jan 2017 #141

I particularly loathe it when people claim bernie supporters don't care about dionysus Jan 2017 #212

I don't make that claim and I don't think many do. See post #211. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #216

I didn't put those words in the mouths of any particular DUer, FYI...I dionysus Jan 2017 #217

It undid unions too ymetca Jan 2017 #4

Excellent. Best thing I've read on DU in a long time. kcr Jan 2017 #5

Look, I agree with you that nobody should say that class is the ONLY issue. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #6

You're missing the point again. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #10

Why does dealing with race and class equate to you as NOT "centering race"? Ken Burch Jan 2017 #11

Racism is largely what enables that economic injustice and corporate domination. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #12

I grew up in one of the poorest places in the US NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #14

That's true and it makes it hard to talk to certain groups of people about racial injustice, because dionysus Jan 2017 #214

I totally agree with you that the fight against racism is crucial. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #16

What people don't get, in spite of forjusticethunder's excellent explanation, is... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #22

I agree with everything you said there. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #28

I think we should work together to find a new leader we both sides can get behind bravenak Jan 2017 #38

I'm not really interested in the Sanders vs. Clinton discussion. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #39

The discussion is kind of a proxy for the primary fight forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #42

Once again, you've nailed it. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #44

Pls explain the "TPP equals union protection" in the OP brush Jan 2017 #68

Bigotry isn't intrinsic and it isn't for nothing. Sure, not being at the bottom might be JCanete Jan 2017 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author brush Jan 2017 #66

I appreciate your efforts. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #132

Social justice forms the umbrella. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #144

Thread winning post bravenak Jan 2017 #30

That title goes to forjusticethunder. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #34

This thread is filled with awesome bravenak Jan 2017 #35

absent racism, the Republican Party would cease to be a viable institution Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #147

Yep, replying to my own post to share 2 excerpts from Obama's speech last night: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #171

That is right, and it was awesome to hear him point that out. He also said that we need to listen to JCanete Jan 2017 #175

Of course he said that. He's a diplomat. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #182

God! This is not rocket science. We have to fight both equally, especially since a huge part of ... brush Jan 2017 #65

It is, but if the framing isn't right, it can backfire. White people in poverty, in areas that don' dionysus Jan 2017 #213

Just what this site needs...another anti-white people thread NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #13

wew lad forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #36

The defensiveness is expected ... JHan Jan 2017 #58

Understanding power is complex and takes deep analysis forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #62

If you don't want to be perceived as ... MicaelS Jan 2017 #81

Because PoC progressives don't have this issue? forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #82

Oh for the love of God, STOP IT! NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #84

Fuck the Alt-Right. MicaelS Jan 2017 #85

If you can be driven away because discussions about racism, you were never with us to begin with n/t kcr Jan 2017 #97

That's right. Iggo Jan 2017 #116

This. Starry Messenger Jan 2017 #123

People here are not "discussing racism." They are assuming that people are racists. NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #126

On second thought.... Iggo Jan 2017 #130

Okay, but do you do it for the personal reward of it or because it's right? If you're doing JCanete Jan 2017 #133

I do things (and argue points) because it is the RIGHT thing to do NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #139

those are words to live by, but my point in one of the threads about being careful about a JCanete Jan 2017 #140

I said that because I have been trying for weeks to have productive conversation, however NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #189

absolutely agree! Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #148

Typically the message has been "Trump voters can fuck off," which I also disagree with on both JCanete Jan 2017 #127

There is a MASSIVE difference between ingrained biases in society and racism NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #131

But that is strategy, and I totally agree with it, versus your own personal sensitivity to it, which JCanete Jan 2017 #134

There is loads of bias and stereotyping NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #190

As I've pointed out to you before, 80% of Trump's supporters are Birthers. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #192

trump voters or trump supporters? That is, people actually fond of trump, or people who helped to JCanete Jan 2017 #193

I'm going to presume that most of his Birther supporters identified in the poll voted for him. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #197

Exactly NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #83

It's unfortunate you think the post is a personal attack against all white people: JHan Jan 2017 #95

People being opposed to immigration is not usually about racism, it's about the economy too NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #128

You're describing the problem but hesitating to call it by its name.. JHan Jan 2017 #137

Well said. And as FJT wrote elsewhere in this thread... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #199

Really? That's how you view it? Fighting against racism is not anti-white dude. brush Jan 2017 #69

Then perhaps the OP should not have singled out white people in the thread title NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #86

Ok, point taken. Did you read it again? it's worth the read. brush Jan 2017 #88

I read it but I disagree with the OP NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #91

The ones singled out should've been the deplorables not white progressives... brush Jan 2017 #93

Was there anything in the post that wasn't correct? True_Blue Jan 2017 #110

Aw. Iggo Jan 2017 #115

So what's the plan to end racism? How do you make people non-racist? jalan48 Jan 2017 #15

Good question. I'd like to know too. (nt) PotatoChip Jan 2017 #18

Building a multiracial alliance is not easy but it can be done with concerted effort. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #25

And I'm pretty sure we are all for that basic concept. Ken Burch Jan 2017 #37

Good to hear. How do we get the rulers of the country to hold these meetings? jalan48 Jan 2017 #40

Before there is ANY hope of ending racism... NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #41

You're not getting the point. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #51

No, they don't. They vote against their interests because they believe lies. NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #74

Thing is forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #75

Not where I come from it's not a "black thing." NoGoodNamesLeft Jan 2017 #77

Before there is any hope of having a meaningful conversation about racism, Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2017 #206

This is my question. OnionPatch Jan 2017 #107

The OP is addressing focus: JHan Jan 2017 #108

Unfortunately, I think it would be like passing legislation requiring us to all love one another. jalan48 Jan 2017 #109

That's not what the OP is saying: JHan Jan 2017 #111

What the OP says is "White Progressives analysis is fundamentally broken". jalan48 Jan 2017 #112

If you get caught up with the headline you miss the more nuanced points: JHan Jan 2017 #113

Dividing groups in society against one another to gain power goes back thousands of years. jalan48 Jan 2017 #114

How do you get the votes to restructure society forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #161

How do we get the votes? By reaching out to others and showing them who the real enemy is. jalan48 Jan 2017 #162

And why do they not already accept who the real enemy is? See the OP. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #163

While society has enlightened itself, however slowly, over time and continues dionysus Jan 2017 #215

Stop Saying Trumps Win Had Nothing To Do With Economics PotatoChip Jan 2017 #17

Nobody said that. You've missed the point. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #23

How so? PotatoChip Jan 2017 #24

The OP explained it so eloquently and better than I can. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #26

I've read it 4 times now, but still don't get what the OP is trying to say. (nt) PotatoChip Jan 2017 #27

Read post #9 by the same author. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #29

None of this makes any sense to me. PotatoChip Jan 2017 #43

The only way to take down the oligarchy is to end the racism they invented to keep bravenak Jan 2017 #45

Labor in the white skin can never free itself as long as labor in the black skin is branded. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #47

That was pretty good bravenak Jan 2017 #48

Aren't we already doing that? PotatoChip Jan 2017 #53

No. We are not doing enough. bravenak Jan 2017 #55

I don't understand why you think anyone is suggesting that... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #46

Why do working class whites vote for policies that actively screw them? forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #49

Why bother w/Trump voters? PotatoChip Jan 2017 #61

Our generation is really progressive, though white millennials still broke for Trump. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #63

And white women broke for Trump, as well. Regarding millennials... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #71

Obama also lost young white voters to Romney . JI7 Jan 2017 #92

unfortunately the post Millennials (iGen, Gen Z, whatever you wish to call them, people born post Grey Lemercier Jan 2017 #150

I'm very skeptical about this. Everybody in the 14-18 age cohort I've interacted with forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #155

I'm somewhat skeptical about those specifics, too, but... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #158

I agree forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #159

Read this awesome post bravenak Jan 2017 #32

yes absolutely. But that means we have to look at the people using the tools. We can't fix this JCanete Jan 2017 #50

For an analogy, you're gonna go into a fight against a bully. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #54

Here, try this one. JCanete Jan 2017 #60

" We can deliver them the real villain that is causing them pain." forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #67

You have to tie that racist brainwashing to the money. That kind of means you have to show them JCanete Jan 2017 #70

Good post. It had a nice positive vibe to it. PotatoChip Jan 2017 #99

yeah, there are things that can be done here for sure. Case by case is a little slow, but of course, JCanete Jan 2017 #118

See now we're getting on the same page forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #106

Rev. Barber Garrett78 Jan 2017 #117

I actually thought I linked that article forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #119

Yes, I agree that conversations about race can't be for a later date. Focusing on its usage as a JCanete Jan 2017 #120

The economic conditions are enabled by racism, both overt and 'soft'. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #72

Great post forjusticethunders: Recommended. JHan Jan 2017 #31

Enjoyed the op. NCTraveler Jan 2017 #52

Which white progressive are you referring to, here? Just Bill Clinton? TygrBright Jan 2017 #56

K&R Starry Messenger Jan 2017 #59

The most progressive state in America is California forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #104

The Democratic Party isnt going to back down from defending minority rights Gothmog Jan 2017 #64

Excellent essay! mcar Jan 2017 #73

Thank you! Political_Junkie Jan 2017 #79

Brilliant post. Thank you. EffieBlack Jan 2017 #90

I have a big crush on your posts, forjusticethunders. Thank you and moar please. betsuni Jan 2017 #98

Is this the plan, really? Kentonio Jan 2017 #100

Look, how do you sell economic populism to people forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #138

The ACA-Obamacare dichotomy would be funny if it wasn't so damn consequential. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #142

The Republicans always run on the economy when they win. Trump certainly did. Kentonio Jan 2017 #152

Hillary won "economy" voters and lost "immigration and terrorism" voters. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #154

Keep telling yourself that. Kentonio Jan 2017 #173

Everything FJT wrote in that post is true. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #174

Renowned racist Steve King of Iowa was interviewed by Robert Siegel of NPR Garrett78 Jan 2017 #200

The Political Third Rail no_hypocrisy Jan 2017 #101

Anti-discrimination laws are not going to break up azmom Jan 2017 #136

As I've written elsewhere in this thread... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #143

Isn't the Democratic Party a multi-racial alliance? azmom Jan 2017 #146

The Democratic electorate is diverse but divided, and not great enough in number. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #164

so i searched the whole thread and found NO reference to 'radio' certainot Jan 2017 #160

It's the whole media in different ways, and radio is absolutely still a big part of it, but yep... JCanete Jan 2017 #165

Yep, that's a big part of the brainwashing on a tactical level. forjusticethunders Jan 2017 #172

From Obama's farewell address: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #170

Bingo! JHan Jan 2017 #177

He said much more than that. azmom Jan 2017 #187

Yep, we have to address the reason why such folks keep finding... Garrett78 Jan 2017 #191

What are the priorities of blacks and Hispanics that voted for Trump? azmom Jan 2017 #195

Hard to say without polling information. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #196

"...no American worker movement will succeed so long as racism remains rampant in America." Garrett78 Jan 2017 #201

Racism and economic anxiety often go together. Willie Pep Jan 2017 #202

Decimation of unions was enabled by racism. And addressing racism is key to labor movement success. Garrett78 Jan 2017 #203

But unions have been successful in the past when racism was even stronger than it is now. Willie Pep Jan 2017 #204

Excerpts from one of the articles I posted: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #208

And an excerpt from another article I posted: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #209

This is a thread I'm sorry I missed when it was happening. Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2017 #205

White progressive analysis? Rex Jan 2017 #210

From a Salon article: Garrett78 Jan 2017 #211