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delrem

(9,688 posts)
31. You mean like the laws of motion, of gravity, or like the laws of England?
Tue Nov 18, 2014, 11:09 PM
Nov 2014

Or do you distinguish the different fields?

Have you read any classical western philosophy? Esp. the empiricists, the nominalists?
The nominalists, in particular, would object to your needless multiplication of entities, where you posit the existence of a distinct image with each distinct term as somehow required for its understanding. As if a child, exclaiming "horse!" upon seeing a horse in a field should also require an image of a horse to understand what she said. Occam's razor was first formulated to cut through exactly that kind of confusion. All that we require to posit is an act of understanding. In the same way we aren't required to vocalize the words to understand a printed page (consider the deaf).

Recall the topic:
Q. Do you equate "objectively real" with "physically real"?
A. Sure. Matter without interpretation, which is tough, since we need interpretation to talk about it.

That is your claim. To tell the truth, it reminds me a bit of some DU contributors who claim to be from a "reality based community", and who claim that their political positions (and those who agree with them) are "realist" as opposed to whatever dismissive term they categorize the opinions of those whose opinions differ.

But back to your claim. The topic of my question wasn't "matter", you introduced that highly abstract term as the sole focus of your answer and in doing dismissed all other content, in effect denying the existence of "objectivity" except as falls in line with your theories or whatever about what "matter" is. Is Euclidean geometry not objectively real? Is Riemannian geometry not objectively real? If one asks a physicist or mathematician, I daresay most would say that objective truths about these systems of mathematics are much more certain than any statement that a physicist might make about "atoms", or "matter". After all, what we know about the physical world is acquired through our sense perception. Again, read the empiricists if you haven't already. Read what Hume has to say about such a basic "law" as of cause and effect. These topics have been debated by the best.

Thanks for discussing this. I'm totally rusty, my mind is half-asleep, so I hope not to have been too much of a bother.

Is it possible to exist outside ideology? [View all] Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 OP
I think ZombieHorde Jun 2014 #1
Chán Buddhism as developed by the Chinese is a practice delrem Jul 2014 #2
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #3
There is no living outside Ideology. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #4
how do you know that? noiretextatique Oct 2014 #5
Personal experience and scientific logic...a potent combination. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #6
How do you define the word "ideology." ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #7
Definition. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #8
That definition is based on imaginary things. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #9
...and yet youre on the "Democratic" Underground site....;) Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #10
Anything that exists only within the imagination is strictly imaginary. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #11
Government actions are much more real than Snape's Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #12
You seem to be conflating three different things. ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #15
I didn't conflate anything. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #16
I agree human behavior relates to objects, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #17
Yes, the Nazis were real. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #18
Why aren't you answering my questions? ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #19
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2014 #20
Do you equate "objectively real" with "physically real"? delrem Nov 2014 #22
Lots of things going on in this post. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #24
This is difficult to take seriously. delrem Nov 2014 #25
Apprehension is one aspect of the imagination. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #26
No. delrem Nov 2014 #27
I did not say they were the same. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #28
symbols are concrete. nt delrem Nov 2014 #29
Where do laws exist? nt ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #30
You mean like the laws of motion, of gravity, or like the laws of England? delrem Nov 2014 #31
I am talking about the laws of governments. ZombieHorde Nov 2014 #32
Thank you. delrem Nov 2014 #33
Althusser's is in fact a reduction, not more complex. FigTree Jul 2017 #36
everyone's personal experience is different noiretextatique Oct 2014 #13
Yes it is. Pike Bishop Oct 2014 #14
Why do you think a ch'an Buddhist should submit to your criterion of "scientific proof"? nt delrem Nov 2014 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author Sweeney Dec 2014 #35
I thought Pike Bishop was trolling me, ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author Sweeney Dec 2014 #34
Live or Exist davidclay123 Aug 2017 #37
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2017 #38
I Don't think so imsarvan May 2018 #39
Mind vs brain lounge_jam Oct 2018 #40
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