Interfaith Group

cbayer

(146,218 posts)

55. During the black years of moderation, we made a different distinction.

Sun Jun 1, 2014, 07:13 AM

Jun 2014

We permitted attacks on the institutions (like against the Mormon church during the propH8 debacle) but not against Mormons in general or individually. This worked pretty well in regard to attacks on particular denominations when the institutions had taken a stand on something.

But I agree that the distinction between beliefs and believers is much more grey. It's possible to be critical of the beliefs without attacking them, and most believers feel that the beliefs are a part of them and are likely to take it personally.

The issue of something being intrinsic is critical here. I have come to the point where I think believing or not believing may not be a choice for many people. Therefore, it's a part of who they are. In those cases, attacking the beliefs may well indeed be attacking the believer.

I have never thought of it in the way you present it here, and I think it has a lot of merit. Do you think it's worth opening a discussion about this in the religion group?

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Believers, what do you want from skeptics in the religion group? [View all] Htom Sirveaux May 2014 OP

I want to be respected. I don't want to be told I believe in fairy tales. hrmjustin May 2014 #1

The same as I want from the believers: civility and maturity. Common Sense Party May 2014 #2

This is a great answer. cbayer May 2014 #3

It may not have the specificity the OP was looking for, but to me, this is essential. Common Sense Party May 2014 #4

It applies everywhere, and not just on this site. cbayer May 2014 #8

Me too Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #16

I don't think you can conclude that "most" want to be cbayer May 2014 #17

I didn't say "most". I said "many". N/T Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #18

My bad. You are correct. cbayer May 2014 #19

In that room it is a sport for a handful. I placed a few on ignore and it works. hrmjustin May 2014 #21

You're right. Fortinbras Armstrong May 2014 #25

Bingo! No Vested Interest Aug 2014 #83

I agree. hrmjustin May 2014 #20

Not a believer, but an advocate of believers and someone who strongly supports cbayer May 2014 #5

Well written and thank you. hrmjustin May 2014 #6

justin, that is only a small group of members. Most of the people who post cbayer May 2014 #7

Oh I still have them on ignore and they are stayingbthere. from what others tell me they seem to get hrmjustin May 2014 #9

An excellent list. okasha May 2014 #10

I think there is an opportunity here. cbayer May 2014 #11

Agreed. some jumo to conclusions too quickly. hrmjustin May 2014 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #37

I am glad that you have responded here because I think you and I can work together. cbayer May 2014 #46

What I understood from your links is that you feel that believers should bend over backwards el_bryanto May 2014 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #48

I do appreciate you coming over here to the interfaith forum to lecture us on civility. el_bryanto May 2014 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #50

I would appreciate you reposting this in the religion forum in the currently cbayer May 2014 #51

We aren't on the same side - at least not in the religion forum. el_bryanto May 2014 #12

I think you draw with too broad a brush. cbayer May 2014 #13

I don't think they speak for the majority of non believers at DU el_bryanto May 2014 #14

Well, that's up to you. cbayer May 2014 #15

I think they do speak for, if not a majority, quite a large number here. Leontius Aug 2014 #86

Ignore works my friend. hrmjustin May 2014 #23

I tried it - but how many DU Skeptics who participate in the religion forum el_bryanto May 2014 #24

I put 5 on and it makes it easier. hrmjustin May 2014 #26

Why does it matter whether they are challenged by other skeptics? cbayer May 2014 #27

Well - I still participate here in the interfaith area on occasion. el_bryanto May 2014 #28

Fair point and I am sorry if it felt like I was jumping on you. cbayer May 2014 #29

You don't have to put them okasha May 2014 #32

Yes but you still see what they say, I would imagine. el_bryanto May 2014 #33

Don't be an asshole. rug May 2014 #30

This is the golden rule of Internet forums goldent May 2014 #31

I seriously thought Dorian Gray Jun 2014 #61

I've decided to make a post about this in religion as well. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #34

That ought to go over well. hrmjustin May 2014 #35

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #38

It really depends on how the op words the op in the religion room because it coukd get locked hrmjustin May 2014 #39

I didn't know of that prohibition. Htom Sirveaux May 2014 #40

Well if you make the op too much about the discussion of the religion room arguments will be made hrmjustin May 2014 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author LostOne4Ever May 2014 #42

Good points and you are always welcome here. hrmjustin May 2014 #43

It would be just like A&A then. rug May 2014 #45

I think basically both groups want the same thing. cbayer May 2014 #36

I'll tell you what I learned from your thread in Religion. okasha May 2014 #52

Very true. hrmjustin May 2014 #53

There is one observation I've made over the years kentauros Jun 2014 #54

During the black years of moderation, we made a different distinction. cbayer Jun 2014 #55

To be perfectly honest, kentauros Jun 2014 #56

Agree that it may be a futile endeavor with some members, but cbayer Jun 2014 #57

Thanks :) kentauros Jun 2014 #58

Their problem is that you can neither attack nor disrepect a belief. They're inanimate. rug Jun 2014 #59

Yes, it is a false distinction. kentauros Jun 2014 #60

I want them to stop using the N-Word and to stop making excuses for it's use. stone space Jun 2014 #62

You realize that is their goal. rug Jun 2014 #63

They've suceeded in eliminating any desire on my part for any... stone space Jun 2014 #65

You can still participate without putting up with it. rug Jun 2014 #67

I still don't believe they ignore you because all they do is talk about you. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #69

They wish they knew how to quit me. rug Jun 2014 #70

I posted a think on Acension Thursday and got hell for it. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #64

I could probably compile a pretty good list of who to ignore simply by watching... stone space Jun 2014 #66

When I put the five I have on ignore life got easier. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #68

I just put 8 people on ignore from the "A request" thread. stone space Jun 2014 #71

Well I hope it works for you. I am told that they don't go after me that much since I put them on hrmjustin Jun 2014 #72

I hope you will feel welcome in this group. okasha Jun 2014 #73

For a while there were those who demanded that No Vested Interest Jun 2014 #74

Thank you. My wife had a similar problem last saturday at work. stone space Jun 2014 #76

My daughter's Middle School came in 9th at that World Finals. rug Jun 2014 #77

Oh, wow! That's really cool! stone space Jun 2014 #78

Congratulations to them. okasha Jun 2014 #80

You run into that kind of hate okasha Jun 2014 #79

Well, I just hope that now that she's got her own hat, she stops stealing mine. stone space Jun 2014 #81

I am being mocked by someone in the other room who I respect and it is making me mad. hrmjustin Jun 2014 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author stone space Aug 2014 #82

I don't want anything from them - el_bryanto Aug 2014 #84

I didn't realize this had just been kicked up. nt el_bryanto Aug 2014 #85