Democratic Primaries

thesquanderer

(12,523 posts)

48. Sirhan Sirhan couldn't vote anyway.

Wed Apr 24, 2019, 07:21 AM

Apr 2019

He wasn't a citizen.

But to your actual point here, whether someone when breaking (at least certain) laws forfeits their right to vote... well that may be DemocratSinceBirth's decree, but whether it's true or not depends on what state you live in and what the legislators choose to do. It's not an inherent or constitutional truth.

But I agree that, as you say...

"Prisoners forfeit certain rights when they break the law and are incarcerated . They certainly forfeit their Second and Fourth Amendment rights. It's a matter of drawing lines. "

My question is about drawing those lines. There is clear rationale for taking away an incarcerated person's right to bear arms. What is the rationale for taking away their right to vote? Who is being made safer? How is it contributing to any possible rehabilitation? What greater good is it serving? What benefit does it offer anyone at all, to justify taking away someone's right, other than making people feel good about making a punishment more severe? Is that enough?

And drawing lines about not just which rights you take away, but also who you take them away from, is likewise not so simple. If, as you imply, you only want to take them away for the very worst offenders, there are even gradations among rapists, murderers, and terrorists. That's one reason why even these crimes can have wildly varying incarceration periods. It's possible for someone who committed a "lesser" crime to be in prison for longer than a particular person who committed one of these "worse" crimes. But that's a secondary point. Mostly, I'm looking for the rationale for taking away the right at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Should duly convicted and incarcerated* murderers, rapists, and terrorists be allowed to vote? [View all] DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author David__77 Apr 2019 #1

If they are incarcerated they are in prison. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #2

Yes, unless you favor a return to Jim Crow... Dennis Donovan Apr 2019 #3

That assumes all criminals are black. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #4

There is racial disparity in sentencing. femmedem Apr 2019 #6

Then that is an argument to address disparity in sentencing DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #7

Addressing the disparity in sentencing... thesquanderer Apr 2019 #25

Then let inmates who aren't rapists, murderers, and terrorists vote. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #28

Sirhan Sirhan couldn't vote anyway. thesquanderer Apr 2019 #48

We as a society draw lines when writing laws. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #57

I never called taking away the right to vote cruel and unusual punishment. thesquanderer Apr 2019 #64

A lot of things I consider cruel and unusual punishment or privations my fellow Americans don't DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #68

NO NO NO!!! murderers like Charles Manson, Boston Mass. are not humans. trueblue2007 Apr 2019 #77

No it doesn't - it spells out that Jim Crow culture is still a real thing... Dennis Donovan Apr 2019 #10

Jim Crow laws were based on an immutable characteristic which is race. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #12

That is what bugs me about race and Sanders. Does he think this is the way Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #59

Exactly DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #60

It doesn't. And it shows how limited his understanding truly is....I mean Vermont is a very Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #61

Just because DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #63

Haha..that is good. It never goes the other way, Does it? Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #65

It's up to the states. Two states allow incarcerated prisoners to vote, Maine and Vermont Rhiannon12866 Apr 2019 #46

Once they've served their sentence bluecollar2 Apr 2019 #5

What about people who have scammed or stolen millions of dollars? Delmette2.0 Apr 2019 #8

People who have cannabis for their own consumption shouldn't be in the hoosegow DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #9

Clint Smith melman Apr 2019 #11

It's possible to believe that our criminal justice system is broken DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #16

But there are obvious reasons for taking away their right bear arms. thesquanderer Apr 2019 #27

Is shipping African American DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #35

You make a reasonable argument that that practice should be outlawed. thesquanderer Apr 2019 #51

For me, the question is moot because the vote tallies would be fraudulent in most cases. ecstatic Apr 2019 #13

In order for it to work, third party observers would need to oversee the voting and it would Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #14

Right. But we can't even get a fair process outside of prisons ecstatic Apr 2019 #15

I believe in respects to voter disenfranchisement, the one feeds the other. Uncle Joe Apr 2019 #19

Probably. So lets fix the outside voting first before giving republicans millions ecstatic Apr 2019 #20

That's a great point. BannonsLiver Apr 2019 #18

For all who voted No.... jberryhill Apr 2019 #17

This. Agschmid Apr 2019 #31

I passed on the question, which is what I think Bernie should have done, too. mtnsnake Apr 2019 #21

I would have answered it depends on the crime DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #22

I'll bet that Bernie in retrospect wishes he had answered it in somewhat that way. mtnsnake Apr 2019 #23

The ads write themselves. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #24

Bernie gave the right answer... thesquanderer Apr 2019 #26

Vermont also ships prisoners, some of them African American, to the Deep South DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #32

Non sequitur. I never said Vermont was perfect. Whataboutism doesn't fly. (n/t) thesquanderer Apr 2019 #49

You did suggest Vermont was an exemplar or model for the nation, if not the entire world. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #54

Nope. I don't know how you got that. thesquanderer Apr 2019 #66

Maybe because you suggested VT is some kind of model DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #67

Where in that post did I suggest that VT should be a model? thesquanderer Apr 2019 #69

If they are part of an armed insurrection and put in prison should MarcA Apr 2019 #29

Are they a citizen? If yes, they should be allowed to vote. Agschmid Apr 2019 #30

Why do they forfeit their 2nd and 4th Amendment rights while incarcerated? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #33

The right to vote and the right to bear arms are completely different. Agschmid Apr 2019 #47

Let's not be too quick to bestow upon Vermont the honor of being an exemplar to the world DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #56

Have you heard of America? Agschmid Apr 2019 #70

"Have you heard of America?" DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #71

Of course it's an issue in VT. Agschmid Apr 2019 #73

But the data indicates it's even worse DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #74

Well let me know when the primary for President of Vermont happens. Agschmid Apr 2019 #75

"The View" panel discussion on the topic (Meghan McCain meltdown): betsuni Apr 2019 #34

Convicted murderers, traitors, and terrorists aren't felons. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #36

My primary reason is radical noodle Apr 2019 #37

Prisoners suffer infinitely worse privations and horrors than losing the right to vote. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #39

Indeed! radical noodle Apr 2019 #43

re: "they forfeit that right when they commit the crime" thesquanderer Apr 2019 #50

Being in prison means giving up your freedom radical noodle Apr 2019 #62

our prison system means racist republicans will be casting those votes JI7 Apr 2019 #38

not a compelling argument for taking away people's rights. unblock Apr 2019 #76

i think Mayor Pete gave the best answer to this JI7 Apr 2019 #40

What did he say? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #41

he said no JI7 Apr 2019 #42

Not a pander bear. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2019 #45

Probably, but I can't think of a more counter-productive way to go about it. ucrdem Apr 2019 #44

More people voted yes than I would have thought. WeekiWater Apr 2019 #52

It's similar to the percentage of people who supported the Freedom Rides at the time. WhiskeyGrinder Apr 2019 #53

Only if it were some other candidates idea. BeckyDem Apr 2019 #55

Truth is, I'm not sure this is important enough to get upset about... TreasonousBastard Apr 2019 #58

No... Grendam Apr 2019 #72