General Discussion

kelly1mm

(5,427 posts)

21. That is probably more helpful going forward than 'Harris did nothing wrong and the voters are stupid' nt

Reply to Blue_Tires (Reply #17)

Sun Dec 8, 2024, 08:59 PM

Dec 8

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

7 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

SunImp Xavier Breath Xavier Breath jalan48 vanessa_ca Brenda rictofen

154 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Is a Grand Realignment Coming? [View all] Cirsium Dec 8 OP

I think you are missing a big factor on why Obama won in 2008. MichMan Dec 8 #1

Maybe Cirsium Dec 8 #4

agreed... but many here won't like it. WarGamer Dec 8 #2

Thanks n/t Cirsium Dec 8 #3

Whose fault is that Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #5

OK Cirsium Dec 8 #8

'The voters are the problem/stupid' is really and truly what I believe a good majority of DU'ers believe. nt kelly1mm Dec 8 #13

Yes Cirsium Dec 9 #65

Since Reagan Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #30

I will keep asking Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #36

That's easy Cirsium Dec 9 #72

Hate and fear are base emotions Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #79

"Short sighted easily manipulated ignorant Americans are the problem." 3catwoman3 Dec 8 #32

If so, are we consigned to permanent minority status? Your post is basically 'The voters suck'. nt kelly1mm Dec 8 #43

What is your solution? You seem to agree the voters got it wrong. Now what? SunSeeker Dec 8 #56

We get to work Cirsium Dec 9 #71

OFFS. What "work"? What do we DO? SunSeeker Dec 9 #75

Ban TikTok! LuvLoogie Dec 9 #82

There will still be X, Facebook, Reddit, Right Wing podcasts, etc. SunSeeker Dec 9 #84

Pandering to celebrity billionaires equals victory Blue_Tires Dec 8 #10

Beyonce, Taylor and Clooney? WarGamer Dec 8 #40

Melon Husk Blue_Tires Dec 8 #51

Trump Elon Musk JI7 Dec 8 #52

How were we "pandering" to them? What did we say/do for them that was different? SunSeeker Dec 8 #57

I was referring to Donnie's bromance with Elmer Blue_Tires Dec 9 #149

Yep. The absurd reaction to the election we saw means we need to clean house, tbh. Oneironaut Dec 8 #16

Post removed Post removed Dec 8 #6

Wow Cirsium Dec 8 #9

Communists are not friends of the poor... Steven Maurer Dec 8 #11

Nice RW talking point, labelling progressives as communists. Fail. Celerity Dec 8 #12

It's more a communist talking point than a RW one Steven Maurer Dec 8 #33

OK Cirsium Dec 9 #70

Apparently I'm a communist. Funny how I've voted Gaugamela Dec 8 #35

Your premise is founded on false data. W_HAMILTON Dec 8 #7

That is the problem right there Cirsium Dec 8 #14

What the hell else do you want? Blue_Tires Dec 8 #20

Yes Cirsium Dec 8 #23

I think you might be talking to quite a few of them here Lulu KC Dec 8 #45

Agreed Cirsium Dec 9 #64

The multiple student loan forgiveness plans were a giveaway to the educated and a slap in the face to kelly1mm Dec 8 #15

We had other benefits for the working class Blue_Tires Dec 8 #18

Yeah, 'The voters suck!' is probably not the slogan we want to go with in 2026/8. nt kelly1mm Dec 8 #19

You never know, Donnie insults his supporters all the time Blue_Tires Dec 8 #22

How it works Cirsium Dec 8 #25

And what exactly does Donnie do to pacify them? Blue_Tires Dec 8 #28

What? Cirsium Dec 9 #67

Trump was already president before Blue_Tires Dec 9 #148

No, not really... WarGamer Dec 8 #50

God, not this shit again... Blue_Tires Dec 8 #17

That is probably more helpful going forward than 'Harris did nothing wrong and the voters are stupid' nt kelly1mm Dec 8 #21

Harris wasn't perfect, but the voters are still fucking stupid Blue_Tires Dec 8 #24

You just listed the number one stance here. Celerity Dec 8 #26

But Harris truly did nothing wrong. That is the reality. SunSeeker Dec 8 #60

Disagree. Celerity Dec 9 #119

So you're saying she should have lied on the View. Got it. SunSeeker Dec 9 #126

That is a false frame. She absolutely could have drawn lines of distinction, and certainly had zero need to (in your Celerity Dec 9 #129

She was asked what Joe did that she would do differently. Those were her actions too. SunSeeker Dec 9 #141

I never said it was the main reason, but it did not help, IMHO. Thank you, btw, for listing some things she could Celerity Dec 9 #142

It is ridiculous to fault her for not foreseeing how Republicans would blow up that innocuous comment. SunSeeker Dec 9 #145

There is only one way to measure that Cirsium Dec 10 #154

Why do white and rural voters from Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #37

Because they feel for not necessarily logical reasons that the Republicans represent them more kelly1mm Dec 8 #38

You're giving them a hell of a lot of credit. Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #41

We Democrats have done a piss poor job of convincing them that they need to stop being manipulated by fear and hubris, kelly1mm Dec 8 #42

I love when folks know the answers Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #44

Ok so you are with the 'voters are dumb' camp. I don't see where we go from here if that it true. I suppose kelly1mm Dec 8 #46

You tell me what will reach them Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #47

Post removed Post removed Dec 8 #53

They don't know who their local reps are Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #59

OK. Then the voters are just too stupid to follow the enlightened path the Democrats are kelly1mm Dec 9 #87

NOBODY is saying we should do nothing. SunSeeker Dec 9 #93

I have offered several policy changes (ditch SALT reinstatement, ditch student loan forgiveness, ditch transgender kelly1mm Dec 9 #96

As adults they must take some responsibility for how they live and how they vote Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #97

If you are right then there is nothing we can do and so long as they out breed us they will continue kelly1mm Dec 9 #99

You keep saying stupid Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #106

Lets go with ignorant instead of stupid then. Still not a winning slogan I think. Calling people ignorant, even kelly1mm Dec 9 #110

Ignorant may be very descriptive but it never comes up in face to face conversation. Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #113

I think for 3 presidential cycles (at least) we Democrats will nominate white cis males for the top spot.nt kelly1mm Dec 9 #117

Unfortunately that is probably true. Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #118

Kamala DID promote worker friendly policies, as you acknowledge. But it never got through the RW noise. SunSeeker Dec 9 #61

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Because if we continue on this path of losing kelly1mm Dec 9 #112

Nobody is saying we shouldn't change anything. nt SunSeeker Dec 9 #114

You keep saying this. Yet offer no changes you think need to be made. nt kelly1mm Dec 9 #116

I am looking for strategies. How do YOU propose we break through the GOP sea of propaganda?? SunSeeker Dec 9 #120

As I have said like 5 times in this discussion, we were able to raise 1B in a bit over 90 kelly1mm Dec 9 #122

$1B is peanuts. Trump got many times that in support from dark money. SunSeeker Dec 9 #127

Thanks for the transphobia! AZSkiffyGeek Dec 9 #151

Again what is the message that you want to deliver Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #48

What are you talking a out? What is "more helpful" than acknowledging reality? nt SunSeeker Dec 8 #58

If the reality is that 'the voters are stupid' and there is nothing we need to change policy or messaging kelly1mm Dec 9 #104

NOBODY said "there is nothing we need to change." Please stop with the straw man. SunSeeker Dec 9 #107

I have stated several policy and messaging changes I think would help. kelly1mm Dec 9 #109

My position is NOT that "there is nothing we need to change." SunSeeker Dec 9 #132

You identify an obvious problem but offer no solutions. You wrote kelly1mm Dec 9 #135

See post 127. SunSeeker Dec 9 #137

You keep referring to post 127. That is not a proposed solution. That is a critique of my proposed solution. kelly1mm Dec 9 #138

OFFS SunSeeker Dec 9 #146

I have read this thread enough berksdem Dec 9 #150

If I knew what the solution was to overcoming the sea of GOP propaganda, I'd be screaming it from the rooftops. SunSeeker Dec 9 #153

You will not get through to them Keepthesoulalive Dec 8 #34

But that is actually not the questions Democrats (who want to win elections) should be asking. The kelly1mm Dec 8 #39

Very good. H2O Man Dec 8 #54

So what do we do about the working class voting against their interests? SunSeeker Dec 9 #62

Pivot away from an emphasis on student loan forgiveness and SALT tax deduction for starters. Also kelly1mm Dec 9 #66

We did not lose because of SALT, student loan forgiveness and transgender athletes. SunSeeker Dec 9 #77

The Harris/Waltz team had almost 3X the funding that Trump/Vance did. Perhaps spending less on celebrity kelly1mm Dec 9 #85

You seem to be claiming Democrats paid money to celebrities to endorse Harris/Walz. You have a source emulatorloo Dec 9 #86

I should have phrased that better. The Harris/Waltz campaign paid the expenses for celebrities who endorsed her kelly1mm Dec 9 #88

OFFS. The rallies would have cost millions regardless of the presence of celebrities. SunSeeker Dec 9 #91

That is total bullshit. Harris had more individual donors. But more MONEY went to support Trump. SunSeeker Dec 9 #90

THIS. Absolutely. The strategy is still Bannon's "flood the zone with bullshit", but it's repeated and repeated and eppur_se_muova Dec 9 #102

SALT is important for high earners. The cap is set at 10k so you would have to pay more than that AND overcome kelly1mm Dec 9 #108

Trump said he wants to restore the full SALT deduction. SunSeeker Dec 9 #111

I have answered this many times. You don't like my answer. My answer may very well be wrong. kelly1mm Dec 9 #115

OFFS. I am asking how to overcome the sea of GOP propaganda - which is why we lost.. SunSeeker Dec 9 #124

WHAT THE ACTUAL F ARE YOU OFFERING AS A SOLUTION? You keep asking 'what can we do to counter kelly1mm Dec 9 #125

See post 127. SunSeeker Dec 9 #128

Ok I guess we just give up then. Can't ever overcome GOP propaganda. No need to change policy/messaging kelly1mm Dec 9 #130

No. Giving up is not an option. We must figure out a way to overcome the GOP propaganda. SunSeeker Dec 9 #136

Your suggestion - throw me under the bus! AZSkiffyGeek Dec 9 #152

The 25,000 dollar down payment was a good example for being out of touch questionseverything Dec 9 #139

No. One of people's biggest complaints is they can't afford to buy a house. SunSeeker Dec 9 #143

No bank will loan you money for a house if it takes 50% of your pay questionseverything Dec 9 #144

You can't even qualify for an apartment if the rent takes 50% of your pay. SunSeeker Dec 9 #147

Correct - this is the media playing uts role Cosmocat Dec 9 #140

If that is the case then those blue collars are going to get everything they deserve. Vote for the billionaires. JohnSJ Dec 8 #27

1910 populism was anything but Republican or Conservative bucolic_frolic Dec 8 #29

Begging your pardon Cirsium Dec 9 #76

Very powerful and rIght on the money! LearnedHand Dec 8 #31

Dems did NOT "woo the wealthy corporations very hard." Republicans did. SunSeeker Dec 9 #63

Oops Cirsium Dec 9 #80

You do understand that those are individual donations by people who work there, right? emulatorloo Dec 9 #83

Yep Cirsium Dec 9 #100

BS. That is employees at the corporation donating to Harris. That is not the Corporation. SunSeeker Dec 9 #89

You are right Cirsium Dec 9 #98

Non white working class votes democratic in huge numbers JI7 Dec 8 #49

Right. H2O Man Dec 8 #55

Sarah Palin was also held to higher standards than Trump JI7 Dec 9 #68

I don't disagree with that Cirsium Dec 9 #69

White people in Ohio were not fooled. They were jealous of the Haitian immigrants JI7 Dec 9 #73

No doubt Cirsium Dec 9 #78

No not really Keepthesoulalive Dec 9 #81

Sadly, I think you're right. SunSeeker Dec 9 #95

Shapiro checks many boxes. But Newsom. Beshear JI7 Dec 9 #101

Do you think Vance will let the counting of the Electoral College votes happen if Dems win? nt SunSeeker Dec 9 #105

Depends on many things. There is a good chance Trump JI7 Dec 9 #123

I read the entire Lucas Kunce essay you linked to and was disappointed. SunSeeker Dec 9 #74

President Obama DID get a lot more people "access to decent healthcare", Jack Valentino Dec 9 #92

Exactly. Obama gave 21 million people health coverage. SunSeeker Dec 9 #94

And Trump tried to take it away JI7 Dec 9 #103

The Republicans have a better propaganda firehose. n/t eShirl Dec 9 #121

Wait a minute wryter2000 Dec 9 #131

Party leadership "allowed " the rise of right wing media? wryter2000 Dec 9 #133

'"they are voting against their own interests!" No they aren't ... They voted to blow it all up' is a contradiction muriel_volestrangler Dec 9 #134