General Discussion

Cirsium

(3,074 posts)

72. That's easy

Mon Dec 9, 2024, 12:45 AM

Dec 2024

Nothing, really. Of course. Yet they win elections. At some point doesn't that say something about their opposition?

This discussion is about what we do, not what they do.

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Is a Grand Realignment Coming? [View all] Cirsium Dec 2024 OP

I think you are missing a big factor on why Obama won in 2008. MichMan Dec 2024 #1

Maybe Cirsium Dec 2024 #4

agreed... but many here won't like it. WarGamer Dec 2024 #2

Thanks n/t Cirsium Dec 2024 #3

Whose fault is that Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #5

OK Cirsium Dec 2024 #8

'The voters are the problem/stupid' is really and truly what I believe a good majority of DU'ers believe. nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #13

Yes Cirsium Dec 2024 #65

Since Reagan Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #30

I will keep asking Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #36

That's easy Cirsium Dec 2024 #72

Hate and fear are base emotions Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #79

"Short sighted easily manipulated ignorant Americans are the problem." 3catwoman3 Dec 2024 #32

If so, are we consigned to permanent minority status? Your post is basically 'The voters suck'. nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #43

What is your solution? You seem to agree the voters got it wrong. Now what? SunSeeker Dec 2024 #56

We get to work Cirsium Dec 2024 #71

OFFS. What "work"? What do we DO? SunSeeker Dec 2024 #75

Ban TikTok! LuvLoogie Dec 2024 #82

There will still be X, Facebook, Reddit, Right Wing podcasts, etc. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #84

Pandering to celebrity billionaires equals victory Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #10

Beyonce, Taylor and Clooney? WarGamer Dec 2024 #40

Melon Husk Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #51

Trump Elon Musk JI7 Dec 2024 #52

How were we "pandering" to them? What did we say/do for them that was different? SunSeeker Dec 2024 #57

I was referring to Donnie's bromance with Elmer Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #149

Yep. The absurd reaction to the election we saw means we need to clean house, tbh. Oneironaut Dec 2024 #16

Post removed Post removed Dec 2024 #6

Wow Cirsium Dec 2024 #9

Communists are not friends of the poor... Steven Maurer Dec 2024 #11

Nice RW talking point, labelling progressives as communists. Fail. Celerity Dec 2024 #12

It's more a communist talking point than a RW one Steven Maurer Dec 2024 #33

OK Cirsium Dec 2024 #70

Apparently I'm a communist. Funny how I've voted Gaugamela Dec 2024 #35

Your premise is founded on false data. W_HAMILTON Dec 2024 #7

That is the problem right there Cirsium Dec 2024 #14

What the hell else do you want? Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #20

Yes Cirsium Dec 2024 #23

I think you might be talking to quite a few of them here Lulu KC Dec 2024 #45

Agreed Cirsium Dec 2024 #64

The multiple student loan forgiveness plans were a giveaway to the educated and a slap in the face to kelly1mm Dec 2024 #15

We had other benefits for the working class Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #18

Yeah, 'The voters suck!' is probably not the slogan we want to go with in 2026/8. nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #19

You never know, Donnie insults his supporters all the time Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #22

How it works Cirsium Dec 2024 #25

And what exactly does Donnie do to pacify them? Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #28

What? Cirsium Dec 2024 #67

Trump was already president before Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #148

No, not really... WarGamer Dec 2024 #50

God, not this shit again... Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #17

That is probably more helpful going forward than 'Harris did nothing wrong and the voters are stupid' nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #21

Harris wasn't perfect, but the voters are still fucking stupid Blue_Tires Dec 2024 #24

You just listed the number one stance here. Celerity Dec 2024 #26

But Harris truly did nothing wrong. That is the reality. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #60

Disagree. Celerity Dec 2024 #119

So you're saying she should have lied on the View. Got it. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #126

That is a false frame. She absolutely could have drawn lines of distinction, and certainly had zero need to (in your Celerity Dec 2024 #129

She was asked what Joe did that she would do differently. Those were her actions too. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #141

I never said it was the main reason, but it did not help, IMHO. Thank you, btw, for listing some things she could Celerity Dec 2024 #142

It is ridiculous to fault her for not foreseeing how Republicans would blow up that innocuous comment. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #145

There is only one way to measure that Cirsium Dec 2024 #154

Why do white and rural voters from Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #37

Because they feel for not necessarily logical reasons that the Republicans represent them more kelly1mm Dec 2024 #38

You're giving them a hell of a lot of credit. Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #41

We Democrats have done a piss poor job of convincing them that they need to stop being manipulated by fear and hubris, kelly1mm Dec 2024 #42

I love when folks know the answers Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #44

Ok so you are with the 'voters are dumb' camp. I don't see where we go from here if that it true. I suppose kelly1mm Dec 2024 #46

You tell me what will reach them Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #47

Post removed Post removed Dec 2024 #53

They don't know who their local reps are Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #59

OK. Then the voters are just too stupid to follow the enlightened path the Democrats are kelly1mm Dec 2024 #87

NOBODY is saying we should do nothing. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #93

I have offered several policy changes (ditch SALT reinstatement, ditch student loan forgiveness, ditch transgender kelly1mm Dec 2024 #96

As adults they must take some responsibility for how they live and how they vote Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #97

If you are right then there is nothing we can do and so long as they out breed us they will continue kelly1mm Dec 2024 #99

You keep saying stupid Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #106

Lets go with ignorant instead of stupid then. Still not a winning slogan I think. Calling people ignorant, even kelly1mm Dec 2024 #110

Ignorant may be very descriptive but it never comes up in face to face conversation. Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #113

I think for 3 presidential cycles (at least) we Democrats will nominate white cis males for the top spot.nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #117

Unfortunately that is probably true. Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #118

Kamala DID promote worker friendly policies, as you acknowledge. But it never got through the RW noise. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #61

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Because if we continue on this path of losing kelly1mm Dec 2024 #112

Nobody is saying we shouldn't change anything. nt SunSeeker Dec 2024 #114

You keep saying this. Yet offer no changes you think need to be made. nt kelly1mm Dec 2024 #116

I am looking for strategies. How do YOU propose we break through the GOP sea of propaganda?? SunSeeker Dec 2024 #120

As I have said like 5 times in this discussion, we were able to raise 1B in a bit over 90 kelly1mm Dec 2024 #122

$1B is peanuts. Trump got many times that in support from dark money. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #127

Thanks for the transphobia! AZSkiffyGeek Dec 2024 #151

Again what is the message that you want to deliver Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #48

What are you talking a out? What is "more helpful" than acknowledging reality? nt SunSeeker Dec 2024 #58

If the reality is that 'the voters are stupid' and there is nothing we need to change policy or messaging kelly1mm Dec 2024 #104

NOBODY said "there is nothing we need to change." Please stop with the straw man. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #107

I have stated several policy and messaging changes I think would help. kelly1mm Dec 2024 #109

My position is NOT that "there is nothing we need to change." SunSeeker Dec 2024 #132

You identify an obvious problem but offer no solutions. You wrote kelly1mm Dec 2024 #135

See post 127. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #137

You keep referring to post 127. That is not a proposed solution. That is a critique of my proposed solution. kelly1mm Dec 2024 #138

OFFS SunSeeker Dec 2024 #146

I have read this thread enough berksdem Dec 2024 #150

If I knew what the solution was to overcoming the sea of GOP propaganda, I'd be screaming it from the rooftops. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #153

You will not get through to them Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #34

But that is actually not the questions Democrats (who want to win elections) should be asking. The kelly1mm Dec 2024 #39

Very good. H2O Man Dec 2024 #54

So what do we do about the working class voting against their interests? SunSeeker Dec 2024 #62

Pivot away from an emphasis on student loan forgiveness and SALT tax deduction for starters. Also kelly1mm Dec 2024 #66

We did not lose because of SALT, student loan forgiveness and transgender athletes. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #77

The Harris/Waltz team had almost 3X the funding that Trump/Vance did. Perhaps spending less on celebrity kelly1mm Dec 2024 #85

You seem to be claiming Democrats paid money to celebrities to endorse Harris/Walz. You have a source emulatorloo Dec 2024 #86

I should have phrased that better. The Harris/Waltz campaign paid the expenses for celebrities who endorsed her kelly1mm Dec 2024 #88

OFFS. The rallies would have cost millions regardless of the presence of celebrities. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #91

That is total bullshit. Harris had more individual donors. But more MONEY went to support Trump. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #90

THIS. Absolutely. The strategy is still Bannon's "flood the zone with bullshit", but it's repeated and repeated and eppur_se_muova Dec 2024 #102

SALT is important for high earners. The cap is set at 10k so you would have to pay more than that AND overcome kelly1mm Dec 2024 #108

Trump said he wants to restore the full SALT deduction. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #111

I have answered this many times. You don't like my answer. My answer may very well be wrong. kelly1mm Dec 2024 #115

OFFS. I am asking how to overcome the sea of GOP propaganda - which is why we lost.. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #124

WHAT THE ACTUAL F ARE YOU OFFERING AS A SOLUTION? You keep asking 'what can we do to counter kelly1mm Dec 2024 #125

See post 127. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #128

Ok I guess we just give up then. Can't ever overcome GOP propaganda. No need to change policy/messaging kelly1mm Dec 2024 #130

No. Giving up is not an option. We must figure out a way to overcome the GOP propaganda. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #136

Your suggestion - throw me under the bus! AZSkiffyGeek Dec 2024 #152

The 25,000 dollar down payment was a good example for being out of touch questionseverything Dec 2024 #139

No. One of people's biggest complaints is they can't afford to buy a house. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #143

No bank will loan you money for a house if it takes 50% of your pay questionseverything Dec 2024 #144

You can't even qualify for an apartment if the rent takes 50% of your pay. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #147

Correct - this is the media playing uts role Cosmocat Dec 2024 #140

If that is the case then those blue collars are going to get everything they deserve. Vote for the billionaires. JohnSJ Dec 2024 #27

1910 populism was anything but Republican or Conservative bucolic_frolic Dec 2024 #29

Begging your pardon Cirsium Dec 2024 #76

Very powerful and rIght on the money! LearnedHand Dec 2024 #31

Dems did NOT "woo the wealthy corporations very hard." Republicans did. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #63

Oops Cirsium Dec 2024 #80

You do understand that those are individual donations by people who work there, right? emulatorloo Dec 2024 #83

Yep Cirsium Dec 2024 #100

BS. That is employees at the corporation donating to Harris. That is not the Corporation. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #89

You are right Cirsium Dec 2024 #98

Non white working class votes democratic in huge numbers JI7 Dec 2024 #49

Right. H2O Man Dec 2024 #55

Sarah Palin was also held to higher standards than Trump JI7 Dec 2024 #68

I don't disagree with that Cirsium Dec 2024 #69

White people in Ohio were not fooled. They were jealous of the Haitian immigrants JI7 Dec 2024 #73

No doubt Cirsium Dec 2024 #78

No not really Keepthesoulalive Dec 2024 #81

Sadly, I think you're right. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #95

Shapiro checks many boxes. But Newsom. Beshear JI7 Dec 2024 #101

Do you think Vance will let the counting of the Electoral College votes happen if Dems win? nt SunSeeker Dec 2024 #105

Depends on many things. There is a good chance Trump JI7 Dec 2024 #123

I read the entire Lucas Kunce essay you linked to and was disappointed. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #74

President Obama DID get a lot more people "access to decent healthcare", Jack Valentino Dec 2024 #92

Exactly. Obama gave 21 million people health coverage. SunSeeker Dec 2024 #94

And Trump tried to take it away JI7 Dec 2024 #103

The Republicans have a better propaganda firehose. n/t eShirl Dec 2024 #121

Wait a minute wryter2000 Dec 2024 #131

Party leadership "allowed " the rise of right wing media? wryter2000 Dec 2024 #133

'"they are voting against their own interests!" No they aren't ... They voted to blow it all up' is a contradiction muriel_volestrangler Dec 2024 #134