General Discussion

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)

64. First of all, the rules of debate require that the

Tue Nov 17, 2015, 03:50 PM

Nov 2015

proponent of an idea or position present sufficient evidence to support their case in order to win. That has been a rule of rhetoric ever since the age of the Greeks. The proponent of an idea ALWAYS has the burden of PROOF. And "Because" or any of its infinite variations does NOT constitute evidence of anything other than what is in that person's head. Which is NOT extrinsic evidence.

Atheists are merely applying reason and logic. If a phenomenon exists, it necessarily must manifest itself in some observable way or it can be deemed not to exist. You might want to read a book by theoretical physicist Victor Stenger, "God - The Failed Hypothesis" in which he adds a variety of scientific disproofs to the strictly logical ones offered by everyone from Daniel Dennett to Christopher Hitchens.

"I'd rather know than believe." - Carl Sagan

"That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

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It's OK to be an atheist [View all] FrodosPet Nov 2015 OP

I like it! nt Quackers Nov 2015 #1

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #150

I started to post something else. When I read it back, I was pretty sure it would get hidden. I... ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2015 #2

Bullshit! Dr. Strange Nov 2015 #3

Why is it not OK to gaspee Nov 2015 #4

I guess I just don't get it SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #142

Yeah, whatever gaspee Nov 2015 #166

I hate that fucking pic. gcomeau Nov 2015 #5

If an adult believed in the Tooth Fairy, we'd rightfully so, mock them NightWatcher Nov 2015 #8

Yup. gcomeau Nov 2015 #13

This. kairos12 Nov 2015 #74

+1000 smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #106

Amen to that. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 2015 #116

Bingo. nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #129

100% correct (nt) Orrex Nov 2015 #11

^^^ this katsy Nov 2015 #17

Agreed. Saying a religion is nutty is miles apart from mysogynistic homophobic laws and violence JanMichael Nov 2015 #19

Also, I look at people as they're nuts when they say "God made man". BlueJazz Nov 2015 #56

Very well-said. nt Codeine Nov 2015 #31

+1 demmiblue Nov 2015 #37

Well the deal is, insecure believers WANT criticism classified like that. trotsky Nov 2015 #46

It's a deliberate defense mechanism for the religious. A false equation. n/t arcane1 Nov 2015 #53

I agree. This is bullshit. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #61

Thank you...I agree 100%. Moostache Nov 2015 #94

"Double standard galore" - EXACTLY. nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #130

Agree n/t Bonx Nov 2015 #76

I have similar feelings about it. Gormy Cuss Nov 2015 #81

Thank you! nt RedCappedBandit Nov 2015 #170

I couldn't agree more. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #190

Good points about the comparison. But what is considered "silly" is relative, Zorra Nov 2015 #204

When it comes to belief, what is silly should be seen as universal. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #209

Sorry, if you are doing something stupid or mean, guided by your religious beliefs NightWatcher Nov 2015 #6

Agreed Orrex Nov 2015 #10

So what you're really saying it's Ok to be an atheist... MindPilot Nov 2015 #7

Much like national borders. LanternWaste Nov 2015 #18

That is kind of tangential to the conversation, but i don't disagree. MindPilot Nov 2015 #25

I would say national borders edhopper Nov 2015 #28

6 days is subjective too The2ndWheel Nov 2015 #40

All true edhopper Nov 2015 #44

It's all our attempt at objectivity in a universe that doesn't give a damn The2ndWheel Nov 2015 #114

I would say edhopper Nov 2015 #118

^THE THREAD WINNER!!! NT LostOne4Ever Nov 2015 #34

Yeah, that is basically what i got from it too. Hey, I believe in Leprechauns randys1 Nov 2015 #126

Yep! RedCappedBandit Nov 2015 #171

Your God is not real, edhopper Nov 2015 #9

It's that classic joke: Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #14

funny :D edhopper Nov 2015 #16

Very true. There are places where my atheism could get me killed. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #22

Yes edhopper Nov 2015 #24

No, you may NOT! MindPilot Nov 2015 #27

MEAT IS MURDER!!!! edhopper Nov 2015 #30

You mean like places where not following Islam results in a death sentence? Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #50

None I can think of in the US, no. Lizzie Poppet Nov 2015 #73

Atheists have been fired from jobs. That's a bit beyond social rejection. Lars39 Nov 2015 #80

My family were "shunned" by the neighbor across the street Mariana Nov 2015 #161

I guess he was just so filled with that Christian Love that he had no room left for friendliness. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #205

I guess some people would say Mariana Nov 2015 #212

Oh, shit, I just realized Mariana Nov 2015 #213

Oh no! Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #214

Is anger and hostility a requisite reaction to incorrect people FrodosPet Nov 2015 #182

It was meant edhopper Nov 2015 #184

Oh thank non-existent God you gave me permission to be an atheist! (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #12

You're welcome! FrodosPet Nov 2015 #185

One of those is not like the others whatthehey Nov 2015 #15

... trotsky Nov 2015 #49

I second you and the kitteh. hifiguy Nov 2015 #79

Bravo! smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #108

Thread winner stage left Nov 2015 #208

UNREC brooklynite Nov 2015 #20

Perfectly okay to make fun of mythology, oh, and everyone is born snooper2 Nov 2015 #21

? SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #143

You are born believing "There is no God"? FrodosPet Nov 2015 #183

We are ALL born without belief in a god. Being an atheist is the default position. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #192

This thread edhopper Nov 2015 #23

Must be true RussBLib Nov 2015 #141

reality? SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #144

The reality that questioning religious belief edhopper Nov 2015 #156

Sorry, I've been working a lot lately FrodosPet Nov 2015 #179

Alas, it kind of is FrodosPet Nov 2015 #178

The stereotype edhopper Nov 2015 #180

Shaming the homophobic, the misogynistic, the racist, and the hateful is okay. Iggo Nov 2015 #26

I have no problems with spirituality hifiguy Nov 2015 #29

As a secular humanist... Bigmack Nov 2015 #32

This Chitown Kev Nov 2015 #152

This post represents religious privilege... MellowDem Nov 2015 #33

Boom. hifiguy Nov 2015 #35

+1000 FLPanhandle Nov 2015 #39

Exactamente. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #62

I agree almost 100%...one nit is missing in your description... Moostache Nov 2015 #98

What you don't realize edhopper Nov 2015 #36

Actually, Rudolph was into brandy. Koinos Nov 2015 #52

Is being homophobic, misogynistic and hateful in the name of Islam okay? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #38

It's OK for muslims hifiguy Nov 2015 #41

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Nov 2015 #109

I chalk it up to a particularly smarmy and hifiguy Nov 2015 #111

Do you have any links for that claim? cpwm17 Nov 2015 #140

Still no link for that claim that cpwm17 Nov 2015 #198

There could have been room... Act_of_Reparation Nov 2015 #43

And some nonsense about reindeer ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2015 #45

"Ideas are people too!" or something. arcane1 Nov 2015 #55

Being homophobic, misogynistic and hateful is NOT ok in ANY circumstance FrodosPet Nov 2015 #189

K & R for the sanity of the OP's graphic. Koinos Nov 2015 #42

Really? edhopper Nov 2015 #47

Okay, I was thinking mostly of the first part: Koinos Nov 2015 #93

I bet there are plenty of religious beliefs edhopper Nov 2015 #105

Absurd beliefs deserve to be ridiculed. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #194

Can i shame religions that are against women?msilly post. Nt Logical Nov 2015 #48

Being an atheist is fine. Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #51

Stupid ideas deserve derision. nt Codeine Nov 2015 #58

It's fine to sneer at invisible sky daddies. You have no proof they exist. MillennialDem Nov 2015 #60

Saying "Pray for Paris" or whatever is obnoxious. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #69

Wow. Nye Bevan Nov 2015 #84

I'm pointing out to you that what you think is perfectly normal is offensive to many. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #121

I've always been a big fan of sauce for the goose. nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #131

Epicurus: panader0 Nov 2015 #113

Yes. He had it figured out long ago. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #119

One of my favorite quotes hifiguy Nov 2015 #120

using this quote here shows a fundamenal misunderstand SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #145

well, tough. Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #89

Believers and atheists Lamonte Nov 2015 #54

I'm sure you take a similar view with regard to Codeine Nov 2015 #57

what about agnostics agnostic102 Nov 2015 #59

Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive. Hell agnostic and theist are not MillennialDem Nov 2015 #66

You speak the truth. trotsky Nov 2015 #67

Most atheists are agnostics. I don't know for certain if a god (or gods) exist or not, but I have MillennialDem Nov 2015 #70

Every atheist I personally know is in the same boat. trotsky Nov 2015 #99

Richard also said he's a 6.9. I'd classify myself as similar. At least as far as the gods that MillennialDem Nov 2015 #107

The Jersey Devil is real! Dorian Gray Nov 2015 #139

First of all, the rules of debate require that the hifiguy Nov 2015 #64

but what does it mean to know? SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #146

On the deepest philosophical levels that is hifiguy Nov 2015 #160

Here's the thing. Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #65

+1 MillennialDem Nov 2015 #71

And the "cosmos" of the people who dreamed up the Abrahamic creation myth hifiguy Nov 2015 #88

Yep. Serious misunderstanding of probabilities here. hifiguy Nov 2015 #92

Where is your evidence of this assertion that atheists claim knowledge of the unknowable? n/t Humanist_Activist Nov 2015 #75

As a matter of logic hifiguy Nov 2015 #82

True, but that's assertions from best available evidence, not claiming we have knowledge of the... Humanist_Activist Nov 2015 #85

Cosmologists and theoretical physicists hifiguy Nov 2015 #90

like logic works SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #147

Logic, and the scientific method that derives from it hifiguy Nov 2015 #162

Not a true statement... Moostache Nov 2015 #115

kettle black? SoLeftIAmRight Nov 2015 #148

Christian reindeer will never know I am an atheist reindeer unless they aka-chmeee Nov 2015 #63

Although you caught some flak here deutsey Nov 2015 #68

The OP is a perfect case in point for 'faith' vs 'action'. The baiting, bigoted original post was Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #154

Matter of perception, I suppose deutsey Nov 2015 #155

Does your persception see the OP discussing his 'points'? Do you wish to defend his points? Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #158

Look, I know you have an axe that you're grinding on this subject deutsey Nov 2015 #159

Serious question for you, FrodosPet: Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #72

Thank you. I get so sick of that stuff. SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #132

LOTS of Christian assholery, no doubt FrodosPet Nov 2015 #169

But in our society saying "God Bless You" is not considered offensive, yet Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #203

This is bull MNBrewer Nov 2015 #77

What if you consider yourself to be a human being and nothing more? randome Nov 2015 #78

So religious beliefs should be given the same level of respect as people? n/t Humanist_Activist Nov 2015 #83

Religions are people, too, my friend! randome Nov 2015 #128

... Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #215

Unless you are Mormon, a Scientologist, or a RW Christian Goblinmonger Nov 2015 #86

Boom! nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #133

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #87

Their Invisible Man In the Sky told them hifiguy Nov 2015 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Nov 2015 #100

Seems to minimize or even trivialize the beliefs and world-views of other people when we say... LanternWaste Nov 2015 #95

Fart noises Solly Mack Nov 2015 #96

. . . hifiguy Nov 2015 #102

Ummm.... Adrahil Nov 2015 #97

Disagree. Moostache Nov 2015 #101

Ah. Quite true. Nt Adrahil Nov 2015 #127

I like that, even though it said nothing about agnostics, but that's OK. Agnosticsherbet Nov 2015 #103

What does an epistemological position have to do with who believes what? whatthehey Nov 2015 #157

Screw that... lame54 Nov 2015 #104

I think it's entirely appropriate to shame them when Vinca Nov 2015 #110

And here's the BIG difference: MindPilot Nov 2015 #138

This right here Lordquinton Nov 2015 #163

And a lot of them get a real charge Mariana Nov 2015 #165

Hmm, nice lesson, but it's disrespectful of caribou/reindeer HereSince1628 Nov 2015 #112

Glad someone knows enough about what's OK to be handing out such judgements. eppur_se_muova Nov 2015 #117

Thanks for posting this....... truegrit44 Nov 2015 #122

Oh yes, love this thread! Serendipity! nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #134

Imagine ozone_man Nov 2015 #123

Lol bigwillq Nov 2015 #124

Being a thinking adult... AlbertCat Nov 2015 #125

LOL...authoritarians are such silly people. Rex Nov 2015 #135

Thank you ever so - for the excellent replies you called forth. nt SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #136

Nearly Zen nt JonathanRackham Nov 2015 #137

If I had an ignore list the rec list for this would be a good addition to it Fumesucker Nov 2015 #149

I recced it to get the replies seen. SusanCalvin Nov 2015 #153

So religion is out of bounds of human enquiry? Yorktown Nov 2015 #151

No, I think you've pegged it. ozone_man Nov 2015 #167

Black or white, true or false, up or down FrodosPet Nov 2015 #188

That's an image full of false equivalency Bradical79 Nov 2015 #164

Yeah. No. Pretty big stretch to target atheism there. DirkGently Nov 2015 #168

Mockery gets people to kill themselves FrodosPet Nov 2015 #172

It’s funny how inconvenient my lack of faith as a bereaved mother can be for those on the outside. Fumesucker Nov 2015 #175

Why don't more athiests and non-secular people start stepping up then? FrodosPet Nov 2015 #181

Would that stop people making cruel comments about your deceased being in "a better place"? Fumesucker Nov 2015 #186

I highly doubt it FrodosPet Nov 2015 #187

The grieving parent is under no obligation to coddle a theistic busybody Orrex Nov 2015 #202

In many areas, there just aren't enough atheists Mariana Nov 2015 #195

They do. All the time. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #196

Because atheists do good things already, but they're not a monolithic group? DirkGently Nov 2015 #199

I wish we could edhopper Nov 2015 #201

... DirkGently Nov 2015 #206

Very well said. stage left Nov 2015 #210

President Obama has said Snobblevitch Nov 2015 #173

Apparently, he should be mocked then? FrodosPet Nov 2015 #174

Oh, well, then. I'm a Democrat, and he is too, so I guess I have to believe in God now! Arugula Latte Nov 2015 #207

Nails it.. whathehell Nov 2015 #176

This is DU blasphemy! ileus Nov 2015 #177

How about: just get a grip, calm the fuck down, and try to act like a well-behaved person? Quantess Nov 2015 #191

Very good. tabasco Nov 2015 #193

It's OK to be a believer. cleanhippie Nov 2015 #197

I see there are 199 posts here edhopper Nov 2015 #200

but he still has a stupid nose. Boudica the Lyoness Nov 2015 #211