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Israel/Palestine
In reply to the discussion: BDS is a Settler Colonial Ideology [View all]Little Tich
(6,171 posts)30. Perhaps we could dispense with the customary insults and provide evidence for our claims instead?
My claim #1 - Palestinians are descended from the original population in Palestine:
Genetic studies on Jews
Source: Wikipedia
(snip)
Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Comparison_with_the_genetic_heritage_of_non-Jewish_populations
---
My (new) claim #2 - The Arab immigration to Palestine under the British Mandate period was not significant:
Demographic history of Palestine (region)
Source: Wikipedia
(snip)
Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#The_Question_of_Late_Arab_and_Muslim_immigration_to_Palestine
---
Arab and Jewish immigration to Palestine from 1920-1945, prepared by the British Mandate to the United Nations
Source: Palestine Remembered, May 12, 2002
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Books/Story835.html
Genetic studies on Jews
Source: Wikipedia
(snip)
Comparison with the genetic heritage of non-Jewish populations
Levantines
Many genetic studies have demonstrated that most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and Druze, Palestinians, Bedouin, Lebanese and other Levantines cluster near one another genetically. One study found that Jews and Palestinians are closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews are to non-Jewish Europeans or Africans. They also found substantial genetic overlap between Israeli and Palestinian Arabs and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. A small but statistically significant difference was found in the Y-chromosomal haplogroup distributions of Sephardic Jews and Palestinians, but no significant differences were found between Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians nor between the two Jewish communities, However, a highly distinct cluster was found in Palestinian haplotypes. 32% of the 143 Arab Y-chromosomes studied belonged to this "I&P Arab clade", which contained only one non-Arab chromosome, that of a Sephardic Jew. This could possibly be attributed to the geographical isolation of the Jews or to the immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium. The Druze people, a "genetic sanctuary" for the diversity of the Near East in antiquity, have been found in genetic studies to be the closest to Jews of the populations in the Levant. Lebanese also cluster closely with Jewish ethnic groups, closer than Syrians and Palestinians, according to a 2010 study by Behar et al. The single archeogenetic study of the southern Levant (Salamon et al, 2010) explored mtDNA haplogroups of Chalcolithic period from a cave in the Judean Desert. The prevailing mtDNA haplogroups were those in U3a, H and H6 haplogroup. "U3 is quite frequent in contemporary mtDNA from Near Eastern and Levantine samples suggesting some temporal continuity in mtDNA haplogroups from as far back as the Chalcolithic Era (circa 4500-4000 BCE). In addition, the authors found that the U3a and H6 haplotypes from the ancient DNA samples were present in a broad range of contemporary Jewish populations".
Levantines
Many genetic studies have demonstrated that most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and Druze, Palestinians, Bedouin, Lebanese and other Levantines cluster near one another genetically. One study found that Jews and Palestinians are closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews are to non-Jewish Europeans or Africans. They also found substantial genetic overlap between Israeli and Palestinian Arabs and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. A small but statistically significant difference was found in the Y-chromosomal haplogroup distributions of Sephardic Jews and Palestinians, but no significant differences were found between Ashkenazi Jews and Palestinians nor between the two Jewish communities, However, a highly distinct cluster was found in Palestinian haplotypes. 32% of the 143 Arab Y-chromosomes studied belonged to this "I&P Arab clade", which contained only one non-Arab chromosome, that of a Sephardic Jew. This could possibly be attributed to the geographical isolation of the Jews or to the immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium. The Druze people, a "genetic sanctuary" for the diversity of the Near East in antiquity, have been found in genetic studies to be the closest to Jews of the populations in the Levant. Lebanese also cluster closely with Jewish ethnic groups, closer than Syrians and Palestinians, according to a 2010 study by Behar et al. The single archeogenetic study of the southern Levant (Salamon et al, 2010) explored mtDNA haplogroups of Chalcolithic period from a cave in the Judean Desert. The prevailing mtDNA haplogroups were those in U3a, H and H6 haplogroup. "U3 is quite frequent in contemporary mtDNA from Near Eastern and Levantine samples suggesting some temporal continuity in mtDNA haplogroups from as far back as the Chalcolithic Era (circa 4500-4000 BCE). In addition, the authors found that the U3a and H6 haplotypes from the ancient DNA samples were present in a broad range of contemporary Jewish populations".
Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews#Comparison_with_the_genetic_heritage_of_non-Jewish_populations
---
My (new) claim #2 - The Arab immigration to Palestine under the British Mandate period was not significant:
Demographic history of Palestine (region)
Source: Wikipedia
(snip)
The Question of Late Arab and Muslim immigration to Palestine
Demographer Uziel Schmelz, in his analysis of Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron kazas, found that most Ottoman citizens living in these areas, comprising about one quarter of the population of Palestine, were living at the place where they were born. Specifically, of Muslims, 93.1% were born in their current locality of residence, 5.2% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 1.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Christians, 93.4% were born in their current locality, 3.0% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 3.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Jews (excluding the large fraction who were not Ottoman citizens), 59.0% were born in their current locality, 1.9% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 39.0% were born outside Palestine.
According to Roberto Bachi, head of the Israeli Institute of Statistics from 1949 onwards, between 1922-1945 there was a net Arab migration into Palestine of between 40,000-42,000, excluding 9,700 people who were incorporated after territorial adjustments were made to the borders in the 1920s. Basing himself on these figures, and including those netted by the border alterations, Joseph Melzer calculates an upper boundary of 8.5% for Arab growth in the two decades, and interprets it to mean the local Palestinian community's growth was generated primarily by natural increase.
Martin Gilbert estimated that 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews". According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of the local Palestinian community's growth was the result of natural increase, Arab immigration to Palestine was significant. Based on his estimates, approximately 100,000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.
The overall assessment of several British reports was that the increase in the Arab population was primarily due to natural increase.These included the Hope Simpson Enquiry (1930), the Passfield White Paper (1930), the Peel Commission report (1937), and the Survey of Palestine (1945). However, the Hope Simpson Enquiry did note that there was significant illegal immigration from the surrounding Arab territories, while the Peel Commission and Survey of Palestine claimed that immigration played only a minor role in the growth of the Arab population. The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[50] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs. It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%.
Demographer Uziel Schmelz, in his analysis of Ottoman registration data for 1905 populations of Jerusalem and Hebron kazas, found that most Ottoman citizens living in these areas, comprising about one quarter of the population of Palestine, were living at the place where they were born. Specifically, of Muslims, 93.1% were born in their current locality of residence, 5.2% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 1.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Christians, 93.4% were born in their current locality, 3.0% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 3.6% were born outside Palestine. Of Jews (excluding the large fraction who were not Ottoman citizens), 59.0% were born in their current locality, 1.9% were born elsewhere in Palestine, and 39.0% were born outside Palestine.
According to Roberto Bachi, head of the Israeli Institute of Statistics from 1949 onwards, between 1922-1945 there was a net Arab migration into Palestine of between 40,000-42,000, excluding 9,700 people who were incorporated after territorial adjustments were made to the borders in the 1920s. Basing himself on these figures, and including those netted by the border alterations, Joseph Melzer calculates an upper boundary of 8.5% for Arab growth in the two decades, and interprets it to mean the local Palestinian community's growth was generated primarily by natural increase.
Martin Gilbert estimated that 50,000 Arabs immigrated to Mandatory Palestine from neighboring lands between 1919 and 1939 "attracted by the improving agricultural conditions and growing job opportunities, most of them created by the Jews". According to Itzhak Galnoor, although most of the local Palestinian community's growth was the result of natural increase, Arab immigration to Palestine was significant. Based on his estimates, approximately 100,000 Arabs immigrated to Palestine between 1922 and 1948.
The overall assessment of several British reports was that the increase in the Arab population was primarily due to natural increase.These included the Hope Simpson Enquiry (1930), the Passfield White Paper (1930), the Peel Commission report (1937), and the Survey of Palestine (1945). However, the Hope Simpson Enquiry did note that there was significant illegal immigration from the surrounding Arab territories, while the Peel Commission and Survey of Palestine claimed that immigration played only a minor role in the growth of the Arab population. The 1931 census of Palestine considered the question of illegal immigration since the previous census in 1922.[50] It estimated that unrecorded immigration during that period may have amounted to 9,000 Jews and 4,000 Arabs. It also gave the proportion of persons living in Palestine in 1931 who were born outside Palestine: Muslims, 2%; Christians, 20%; Jews, 58%.
Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)#The_Question_of_Late_Arab_and_Muslim_immigration_to_Palestine
---
Arab and Jewish immigration to Palestine from 1920-1945, prepared by the British Mandate to the United Nations
Source: Palestine Remembered, May 12, 2002
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Books/Story835.html
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LoL. This is a great article to use against the Zionism = Colonialism racist crap.
shira
Sep 2016
#2
The author of this stinker is promoting the myth that Palestinians are descended from Arab invaders
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#3
Would it be correct to assume that you think the quote in my post #12 to be factually incorrect? n/t
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#31
Please stop obfuscating. I'm talking about claims that Jews aren't indigenous....
shira
Sep 2016
#36
Are you suggesting that Palestinians don't have a right to live in their ancestral homeland?
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#10
Please just look at the evidence in my post #30 and form your own opinion. n/t
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#33
Palestinians are descended from the people that have lived in Palestine since prehistory,
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#11
The term "indigenous" is a vague concept that seems to have lost its original meaning.
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#15
It seems as if you're trying to avoid saying that you think that Palestinians are not indigenous
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#18
As I've stated before - I've never encountered this myth outside of racist argumentation. n/t
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#24
Perhaps we could dispense with the customary insults and provide evidence for our claims instead?
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#30
Racial purity isn't my favourite subject, but as it seems important for you, I guess you need to
Little Tich
Sep 2016
#25
Criticizing settlements is fine but calling it colonialism as if Jews don't belong....
shira
Dec 2016
#39
I don't have a problem with legit criticism of settlements, but colonialism goes too far.
shira
Dec 2016
#41
I'm not sure they're against the existence of Israel within the pre-1967 lines.
Ken Burch
Dec 2016
#42