Religion

DetlefK

(16,450 posts) Mon Jul 29, 2019, 02:33 PM Jul 2019

"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" [View all]

- "You betrayed me. You betrayed my trust, you betrayed our friendship, you betrayed everything I've ever stood for and YOU LET ME DOWN."

- "Then why are you helping me?"

- "Why? Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?"

This right there.

This is perhaps the most damning statement I have ever read.

In medieval times, writing a play with this sentence in it would have condemned you straight to the pyre for heresy. Do you understand how truly outrageous, dangerous, offensive and heretical this sentence is?

According to the Bible, the ever-loving God cast mankind out from paradise because of the primordial sin. And yet, here is a character in a story, showing a degree of love and caring and nobility that is superior to God.

Mankind is capable of forgiving the most horrible sin: betrayal. God is not.

THIS right here, this very sentence, reveals the hollow lie at the center of the christian religion.

Eve eats of the forbidden fruit. Her punishment reveals what a character this ever-loving, eternal, unchanging, omnipotent, omniscient God is. It's a test of character. And he failed.

Lucifer refused to accept God as his master. His punishment reveals what a character this ever-loving, eternal, unchanging, omnipotent, omniscient God is. It's a test of character. And he failed.

54 replies

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Highlight:

"Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?" [View all] DetlefK Jul 2019 OP

well God would have had to have known that Lucifer would do that TalenaGor Jul 2019 #1

Spins your head, does it? PJMcK Jul 2019 #3

seriously....ffs... I told someone I my theory on how we got Jesus.... TalenaGor Jul 2019 #4

The god of the Old Testament is a pretty crappy dude PJMcK Jul 2019 #2

The God of the New Testament isn't remarkably better. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #12

Not quite PJMcK Jul 2019 #27

Now from those of us humans who are less goodly-- dawg day Jul 2019 #5

Lucifer tried to replace the Creator. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #6

Which section of your holy book described Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #7

Are they to be believed... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #8

As far as I know they aren't described at all Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #9

That's not what we read in this forum, where some people... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #10

And is Milton an undiscovered disciple... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #11

"Lucifer" the "light bringer." trotsky Jul 2019 #13

I think I heard this story before... NeoGreen Jul 2019 #14

Your translation of the name Lucifer is correct. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #15

Every time you accuse others of following a narrative... trotsky Jul 2019 #16

Perhaps if you debated my actual positions......eom guillaumeb Jul 2019 #17

Is your actual position that Lucifer was the bad guy? trotsky Jul 2019 #18

The sin of Lucifer was pride. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #20

So, was Lucifer the bad guy? trotsky Jul 2019 #23

Lucifer didn't do that all by himself, did he? Mariana Jul 2019 #19

The story of Lucifer illustrates pride leading to a separation from the Creator, guillaumeb Jul 2019 #21

Bringer of light partly relates to the planet Venus; Bretton Garcia Jul 2019 #22

I understand. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #25

But in this reading, it is Jesus and Christianity that pridefully... Bretton Garcia Aug 2019 #40

Christians believe that Jesus perfected the message of the Creator. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #42

And you get zero response to a very good question. trotsky Jul 2019 #24

Why did they revolt? guillaumeb Jul 2019 #26

A bit OT hurl Jul 2019 #29

My faith leads me to believe in a Creator. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #35

I have the free will to murder someone right now. trotsky Jul 2019 #30

All of the angels could have risen up, but they didn't. Mariana Jul 2019 #31

Also obvious is that free will allows each being to choose their actions. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #36

Mariana, well done saidsimplesimon Jul 2019 #28

Hi Mariana - thank you for posting this thought provoking question. Pendrench Jul 2019 #33

An interesting point. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #37

Well, why not, he was a shitty creator. AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #34

If you were the Creator, what would you have done differently? guillaumeb Jul 2019 #38

Would have created an intelligent being and watched what happens next. DetlefK Aug 2019 #39

Sentient beings are intelligent. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #43

Okay, but now we need a definition for sentient. DetlefK Aug 2019 #45

Self awareness is critical. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #46

Is that rhetorical, or do you want an actual list? AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #41

But would this system be perfect, or allow for growth? guillaumeb Aug 2019 #44

Depends. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #47

Perhaps the tools of the Creator are too fine and leave such subtle marks guillaumeb Aug 2019 #48

Well, there's a couple ways of looking at it. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #49

Expecting to see such marks, or recognizing that the marks are there, guillaumeb Aug 2019 #51

It implies nothing more than the capacity to understand our Universe. AtheistCrusader Aug 2019 #54

So you worship a god intent on tricking people. trotsky Aug 2019 #50

The word "tricking" is your framing. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #52

Now you're the royal "we"? trotsky Aug 2019 #53

Love is divine. LuvLoogie Jul 2019 #32