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onager

(9,356 posts)
21. Completely wrong.
Sat Dec 31, 2011, 12:05 AM
Dec 2011

Japan, Germany and Italy officially became allies after signing the Tripartite Pact of 1940.

Article 3 covered their obligations in case of war (emphasis mine):

ARTICLE 3. Japan, Germany, and Italy agree to cooperate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further undertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means if one of the Contracting Powers is attacked by a Power at present not involved in the European War or in the Japanese-Chinese conflict.

IOW, Germany ONLY had to declare war on the U.S. if it attacked Japan. But Japan attacked us first. Germany was under absolutely no obligation to declare war on the U.S.

I've always wondered why Germany did. By December 1941, Hitler had a long history of tearing up treaties/agreements whenever it suited him. Declaring war on the U.S. was one of the two things that guaranteed Nazi Germany would lose the war...the other being its invasion of Russia in June 1941. Which, er, um, oh yes...was pretty obviously a violation of the Russo-German Nonaggression Pact of August 1939.

The History Channel recently ran a documentary on the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theories. As one historian pointed out, these theories are almost always politically driven. Specifically by right-wing cranks.

FWIW, the official German declaration of war on the U.S. doesn't even mention Japan. This is the whole thing:

German Declaration of War against the United States

The Government of the United States having violated in the most flagrant manner and in ever-increasing measure all rules of neutrality in favor of the adversaries of Germany and having continually been guilty of the most severe provocations toward Germany ever since the outbreak of the European war, provoked by the British declaration of war against Germany on September 3, 1939, has finally resorted to open military acts of aggression.

On September 11, 1941, the President of the United States publicly declared that he had ordered the American Navy and Air Force to shoot on sight at any German war vessel. In his speech of October 27, 1941, he once more expressly affirmed that this order was in force. Acting under this order, vessels of the American Navy, since early September 1941, have systematically attacked German naval forces. Thus, American destroyers, as for instance the Greer, the Kearny and the Reuben James, have opened fire on German submarines according to plan. The Secretary of the American Navy, Mr. Knox, himself confirmed that American destroyers attacked German submarines.

Furthermore, the naval forces of the United States, under order of their Government and contrary to international law have treated and seized German merchant vessels on the high seas as enemy ships.

The German Government therefore establishes the following facts:

Although Germany on her part has strictly adhered to the rules of international law in her relations with the United States during every period of the present war, the Government of the United States from initial violations of neutrality has finally proceeded to open acts of war against Germany. The Government of the United States has thereby virtually created a state of war.

The German Government, consequently, discontinues diplomatic relations with the United States of America and declares that under these circumstances brought about by President Roosevelt, Germany too, as from today, considers herself as being in a state of war with the United States of America.

Accept, Mr. Chargé d'Affaires, the expression of my high consideration.

December 11, 1941





They've been around a very long time RZM Dec 2011 #1
. TZ Dec 2011 #2
So that DavidSwanson guy has a reputation here? I think there's.. MarkCharles Dec 2011 #3
Not only that. Some people - doctors even - reject germ theory; heliocentrism too dmallind Dec 2011 #4
Well see I always thought the internet was making this stuff worse TZ Dec 2011 #5
Oh yes. This has been going on for a while LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #6
Try going to primary sources then. kristopher Dec 2011 #16
He WAS NOT desperate to go to Europe TZ Dec 2011 #18
Just claiming something is woo isn't "skepticism" kristopher Dec 2011 #19
Ummm TZ Dec 2011 #20
IIRC, there was a member MicaelS Dec 2011 #7
Yes, and they'll be mumbling it into their pureed veg at the old folks' home Warpy Dec 2011 #8
A Pearl Harbor truther!? Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #9
I thought the argument was that... Odin2005 Dec 2011 #10
They had been in China for 10 years by then. kristopher Dec 2011 #14
Japan needed natural resources, MicaelS Jan 2012 #24
No argument about the cupability or the motives of the Japanese kristopher Jan 2012 #25
the site your linking to a hate site maddezmom Jan 2012 #32
I was unaware of this.. MicaelS Jan 2012 #33
thank you for editing maddezmom Jan 2012 #34
I heard about the "FDR Knew" theories a good 40 years ago in high school history class - LibertyLover Dec 2011 #11
'Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?' LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #12
The Japanese and the Germans were allies. kristopher Dec 2011 #15
Completely wrong. onager Dec 2011 #21
Have you made a detailed study of the history of this era? kristopher Dec 2011 #13
Umm the person who told me TZ Dec 2011 #17
everyone knows that those Zeros were holograms Anarcho-Socialist Jan 2012 #22
Nothing more than a right-wing smear used against FDR PVnRT Jan 2012 #23
Whether he knew the specifics of Pearl Harbor or not, there is little doubt he planned to go to war. rug Jan 2012 #26
I wish the FDR race camps were just a conspiracy theory. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #27
Japanese-Americans could have had it worse... MicaelS Jan 2012 #28
Your post reads like it is defending the FDR race camps. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #29
No, I'm no defendng them.. MicaelS Jan 2012 #30
I am glad the misunderstanding is on my end. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #31
Germans in the U.S. were interned in both WWI and WWII onager Jan 2012 #35
The UK certainly interned 'enemy aliens' LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #37
"FDR knew" should be added to the TOS... onager Jan 2012 #36
Actually, I think that counts as a TOS violation. laconicsax Jan 2012 #38
I had a question for you from the meta-discussion thread. kristopher Jan 2012 #40
I addressed your post on the Tripartite Pact elsewhere - in the help & meta-discussion forum kristopher Jan 2012 #39
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