Skepticism, Science & Pseudoscience

kristopher

(29,798 posts)

39. I addressed your post on the Tripartite Pact elsewhere - in the help & meta-discussion forum

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 08:42 PM

Jan 2012

As a specific example of the trend in the discussion, compare the "interpretation" of the information in post 21 to this summary of events by the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/december/11/newsid_3532000/3532401.stm
One parses diplomatic legalese searching to validate a revisionist view of the events under discussion, the other presents the accepted view based on reading the legalese in the context of events.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/124020212

From the BBC link:

...Then Adolf Hitler made his announcement at the Reichstag in Berlin saying he had tried to avoid direct conflict with the US but, under the Tripartite Agreement signed on 27 September 1940, Germany was obliged to join with Italy to defend its ally Japan.
"After victory has been achieved," he said. "Germany, Italy and Japan will continue in closest co-operation with a view to establishing a new and just order."

In order to justify your unwarranted criticism of me, you must ignore not only the accepted interpretation of history on this topic (as you've done with the relationship revolving around the Tripartite Pact) but you must also pretend that I didn't say what was in the body of one of my posts above that you loosely quoted. In post 16, where my header urged consulting not "original documents" but "primary sources", the next thing I wrote was:

I wouldn't go so far as to say FDR was aware of the specific time and target that the Japanese had selected, but he did engage in both a systematic campaign of antagonistic behavior against the Japanese and a public relations campaign designed to place the aggression of Japan in China into the public limelight.

I'm interested to know how you can therefore construe my position as supporting the claim that FDR knew about the attack in advance or that he did or would have withheld the information if he had known?

My position is not that such claims are true, but that because of the circumstances there is a solid basis for the persistence such speculation. If you want to help people understand what is true, it usually helps to understand why they believe what is untrue.

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This message was self-deleted by its author [View all] TZ Dec 2011 OP

They've been around a very long time RZM Dec 2011 #1

. TZ Dec 2011 #2

So that DavidSwanson guy has a reputation here? I think there's.. MarkCharles Dec 2011 #3

Not only that. Some people - doctors even - reject germ theory; heliocentrism too dmallind Dec 2011 #4

Well see I always thought the internet was making this stuff worse TZ Dec 2011 #5

Oh yes. This has been going on for a while LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #6

Try going to primary sources then. kristopher Dec 2011 #16

He WAS NOT desperate to go to Europe TZ Dec 2011 #18

Just claiming something is woo isn't "skepticism" kristopher Dec 2011 #19

Ummm TZ Dec 2011 #20

IIRC, there was a member MicaelS Dec 2011 #7

Yes, and they'll be mumbling it into their pureed veg at the old folks' home Warpy Dec 2011 #8

A Pearl Harbor truther!? Boston_Chemist Dec 2011 #9

I thought the argument was that... Odin2005 Dec 2011 #10

They had been in China for 10 years by then. kristopher Dec 2011 #14

Japan needed natural resources, MicaelS Jan 2012 #24

No argument about the cupability or the motives of the Japanese kristopher Jan 2012 #25

the site your linking to a hate site maddezmom Jan 2012 #32

I was unaware of this.. MicaelS Jan 2012 #33

thank you for editing maddezmom Jan 2012 #34

I heard about the "FDR Knew" theories a good 40 years ago in high school history class - LibertyLover Dec 2011 #11

'Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?' LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #12

The Japanese and the Germans were allies. kristopher Dec 2011 #15

Completely wrong. onager Dec 2011 #21

Have you made a detailed study of the history of this era? kristopher Dec 2011 #13

Umm the person who told me TZ Dec 2011 #17

everyone knows that those Zeros were holograms Anarcho-Socialist Jan 2012 #22

Nothing more than a right-wing smear used against FDR PVnRT Jan 2012 #23

Whether he knew the specifics of Pearl Harbor or not, there is little doubt he planned to go to war. rug Jan 2012 #26

I wish the FDR race camps were just a conspiracy theory. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #27

Japanese-Americans could have had it worse... MicaelS Jan 2012 #28

Your post reads like it is defending the FDR race camps. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #29

No, I'm no defendng them.. MicaelS Jan 2012 #30

I am glad the misunderstanding is on my end. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #31

Germans in the U.S. were interned in both WWI and WWII onager Jan 2012 #35

The UK certainly interned 'enemy aliens' LeftishBrit Jan 2012 #37

"FDR knew" should be added to the TOS... onager Jan 2012 #36

Actually, I think that counts as a TOS violation. laconicsax Jan 2012 #38

I had a question for you from the meta-discussion thread. kristopher Jan 2012 #40

I addressed your post on the Tripartite Pact elsewhere - in the help & meta-discussion forum kristopher Jan 2012 #39