Democratic Primaries

Sunsky

(1,876 posts)

173. Dem voters are practical and not magical thinkers

Sat Mar 28, 2020, 03:42 AM

Mar 2020

I would like to get to Medicare for all but, incrementally. I realize that change will not happen overnight. I cannot support someone who talks a big talk but has little to show for it. We have to learn to work with the system we have and build on it, not burn the whole system down and end up with nothing.

All these posts about MFA are useless. We don't have it and we likely won't for many years to come, even with a president Sanders. #Reality.

Also misrepresenting what Biden said doesn't bode well for your argument. The debate question was about COVID-19 and only about COVID-19. Sanders did his usual one issue pivot to MFA and Biden rightfully pointed out that Italy has a single payer system and yet there healthcare system has been overwhelmed by COVID-19 (600, 700, 800... of deaths per day because of a stressed healthcare system). Therefore, MFA is not the be all end all solution for this pandemic. He did not say Italy's single payer system doesn't work (period).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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This Teen Died of COVID because of no Medicare for All [View all] wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 OP

Voters decided ACA was better per primary results so far jimfields33 Mar 2020 #1

Poll after poll said dem primary voters prefer M4A wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #12

Ugh!!! jimfields33 Mar 2020 #22

No they don't. Poll after poll said Democratic primary voters want a form of universal health care.. George II Mar 2020 #31

I'll give you an entire link wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #72

None of the first several results don't say the preference is "Medicare for All"... George II Mar 2020 #73

Semantics games. Perfect. wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #77

Lots of difference. Do you know how the current Medicare plan works and how it's implemented? George II Mar 2020 #78

Medicare for all is a model for delivery of a government-run plan. lapucelle Mar 2020 #176

Your own link says "Most Mississippi Democrats support 'Medicare for All'" wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #79

Then the article goes on to say: George II Mar 2020 #82

Yet NBC is able to read between the lines and report likewise wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #86

Because there is none. "Medicare for all" (TM) is most likely not what they were asked.... George II Mar 2020 #89

The article states he was denied healthcare because he had no insurance. ChiTownDenny Mar 2020 #47

at 17 he couldn't buy insurance anyways questionseverything Mar 2020 #136

Indeed ck4829 Mar 2020 #175

How Many Like This Teen Will Die Because Bernie Helps Trump Win? TomCADem Mar 2020 #51

But .. but .... Italy is different NCProgressive Mar 2020 #74

Yes and love a glass of Wine! sheshe2 Mar 2020 #81

Politico: Trump's mismanagement helped fuel coronavirus crisis TomCADem Mar 2020 #91

??? Italy has the second best healthcare in the world wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #108

So, Italy Has Single Payer, But Escalating Covid19 Deaths... TomCADem Mar 2020 #112

Italy has a great healthcare system wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #148

Italy like other state systems has a shortage of nurses and doctors. ACA ruled that children under emmaverybo Mar 2020 #134

aca allows children to stay on their parents policy until they are 26 questionseverything Mar 2020 #138

No.It doesn't. Much needs fixing. More regulation private insurance. Restore ACA and Lower premiums emmaverybo Mar 2020 #142

fixing it from every angle works for me but in the long run questionseverything Mar 2020 #143

Agree. Will take time. emmaverybo Mar 2020 #157

Italy has the 2ND best hc system in the world mcar Mar 2020 #121

M4A might or might not have made a difference. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #2

I know. But numbers seem smaller in those countries jimfields33 Mar 2020 #4

Many other countries don't have leaders and governments that suck. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2020 #23

That's not why he died. Sadly hundreds of people have died and they DID have Medicare. In fact.... George II Mar 2020 #3

And by some people's logic here wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #149

No. Blue_true Mar 2020 #160

If he had presented at an emergency room, he would have received care bluedye33139 Mar 2020 #5

Will an emergency room take you in if you're coughing? wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #8

EMTALA governs emergency rooms and forbids refusal of service bluedye33139 Mar 2020 #14

An emergency would have treated him. In fact, patients are being treated in emergency rooms.... George II Mar 2020 #32

Yes, let's strain our emergency rooms even more! wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #39

No it isn't. It isn't even a "debate", it's pointing out the fallacy of your OP subject line. George II Mar 2020 #49

Clearly the solution was for him to sit in the ER lobby coughing until he coded. AtheistCrusader Mar 2020 #33

Have you ever worked in an Emergency Room? What you say wouldn't have happened. George II Mar 2020 #50

(It was sarcasm.) AtheistCrusader Mar 2020 #56

The options were an urgent care that required insurance or an ER bluedye33139 Mar 2020 #68

all the emergency room has to do by law is stabilize, right? questionseverything Mar 2020 #140

he may have waited too long to go, although from what I am reading, this stuff escalates yellowdogintexas Mar 2020 #69

He was 17, a minor Butterflylady Mar 2020 #88

Yes they will, ERs don't discriminate whatsoever. You need to spend some time researching this stuff George II Mar 2020 #120

With an agenda to push, research falls by the wayside. nt Blue_true Mar 2020 #162

Of course it would mcar Mar 2020 #122

Your post seems to completely trash your claim. Blue_true Mar 2020 #161

It is a heartbreaking tragedy being used in a most despicable political way. William769 Mar 2020 #21

I admire the enthusiasm of M4A supporters bluedye33139 Mar 2020 #29

Medicaid for All Turin_C3PO Mar 2020 #41

what state are you in? questionseverything Mar 2020 #141

New Mexico. Turin_C3PO Mar 2020 #144

yes thats way dif than just medicaid questionseverything Mar 2020 #146

i dont think at 17 he could apply for his own medicaid? questionseverything Mar 2020 #139

we cant say he died because of no MFA..... samnsara Mar 2020 #6

Oh, FFS. Stop it. That is false. NurseJackie Mar 2020 #7

What part of "turned away because of no insurance" do you not understand? wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #10

You said "because of no Medicare for All", not "no insurance"! George II Mar 2020 #19

The reason for no insurance could be failure to apply for medicaid showblue22 Mar 2020 #26

What part of "what are you doing at an urgent care" Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #27

Yes, people always know precisely how far away death's door is. AtheistCrusader Mar 2020 #37

He had a heart attack on his way to the next stop Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #52

I will certainly conceed that he may have died regardless. AtheistCrusader Mar 2020 #57

Fair enough Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #62

"turned away because of no insurance" TwilightZone Mar 2020 #28

Posts can be false in many ways FBaggins Mar 2020 #159

Drivel nt DURHAM D Mar 2020 #9

Very sad; however, I'm not sure why this teen wasn't at least covered by California Medicaid. Hoyt Mar 2020 #11

These are the people who fall through the cracks wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #13

Not really. California expanded Medicaid under ACA. And even before, they covered almost any kid of Hoyt Mar 2020 #16

Then why was he turned away? wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #25

It could be that the Urgent Care center told them he needed to go straight to ER. They don't Hoyt Mar 2020 #45

Read the story first wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #46

I read the story and several updates since that story. Urgent Care centers aren't going to take a Hoyt Mar 2020 #53

Most Urgent care facilities are privately owned showblue22 Mar 2020 #60

Exactly. nt Blue_true Mar 2020 #166

Good point, anyone who has gone to urgent care would know Blue_true Mar 2020 #165

The person at the front door certainly didn't say "You don't have m4a, you can't come in!!!".... George II Mar 2020 #48

He didn't have insurance wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #150

He didn't have Medicaid, Blue Cross, etc. Remember, "medicare for all" isn't available to ANYONE! George II Mar 2020 #178

10 million of 350 million people showblue22 Mar 2020 #17

"10 million people are expendable" wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #24

Bernie's plan helps ZERO people. showblue22 Mar 2020 #30

When do you stop saying 'coalition' as if you and people like you are inclusive of the AtheistCrusader Mar 2020 #40

I don't know what you mean. showblue22 Mar 2020 #55

The same repukes would deny Biden's plan too wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #42

So Why bother having posted this? You've come full circle..so just stop it! It's not helpful Thekaspervote Mar 2020 #92

No, they aren't expendable Hav Mar 2020 #38

Not true. He qualified for the ACA, and Biden's plan would expand on the ACA. Please stop.... George II Mar 2020 #36

"Access" versus "Actual Coverage" wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #61

BS. Blue_true Mar 2020 #163

Why is the source of the article hidden? showblue22 Mar 2020 #15

Here's a government link to info Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #35

Could you please provide a link to where Biden's own healthcare plan pnwmom Mar 2020 #18

The urgent care in my city... Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #20

Then tell the Mayor he's lying wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #76

He's not lying Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #100

Quick care centers are not equipped to deal with what is described here mcar Mar 2020 #123

Just saw a news program where a COVID patient wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #99

Whatever Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #102

Many cases do not get treated at an urgent care. emmaverybo Mar 2020 #34

I believe the kid's condition was minor back then wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #44

England's ER's are often closed and when open often over run. That is without corona emmaverybo Mar 2020 #54

Yet, sheshe2 Mar 2020 #80

Now I doubt if his condition was minor wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #85

So, he still could have gone to the ER after urgent care. Blue_true Mar 2020 #167

He went to a nearby urgent care clinic wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #168

Your post that I responded to implied differently on the timing, Blue_true Mar 2020 #181

Glad to see any perceived inconsistencies wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #182

IMO, your inconsistencies are happening because you are pushing an agenda, facts be damned. Blue_true Mar 2020 #184

The original report stated that the kid was denied care wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #188

What is it you don't get after being told repeatedly that storefront Blue_true Mar 2020 #190

And I already told you many urgent care places do accept patients wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #192

I will let you post stand on it's own. People just need to read it to see Blue_true Mar 2020 #194

I didn't mischaracterize it. I was right. wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #197

The article says there were several days between his visit to urgent care Blue_true Mar 2020 #200

I don't know why you are so invested in explaining away this tragedy wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #201

Fact matter. You are pushing an agenda that facts don't support. nt Blue_true Mar 2020 #202

Hippocratic oath gibraltar72 Mar 2020 #43

This is not a truthful post! He was obviously too sick to be treated at an urgent care Thekaspervote Mar 2020 #58

Agreed. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #63

"You have a single-payer system in Italy--it doesn't work there" wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #101

What are those countries BS mentions all the time? sheshe2 Mar 2020 #107

Yes, having hospitals is not enough for this disease wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #109

Me and "my type"? sheshe2 Mar 2020 #113

Oh no! We've been uncovered as the wealthy elites we are. betsuni Mar 2020 #145

I will be there! sheshe2 Mar 2020 #147

We're Dem(d) Republicans. Sanders has been Hortensis Mar 2020 #172

So you can't say who those countries are that Sanders is always speaking of, can you? And... George II Mar 2020 #117

Again I ask you to explain your comment. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #119

... George II Mar 2020 #124

Thank you. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #129

"You and your type?" mcar Mar 2020 #125

No answer. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #130

We are Democrats, she mcar Mar 2020 #132

I watched. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #133

Note to all: It's going to be rerun at midnight tonight for anyone who missed it or cares. George II Mar 2020 #135

Thanks George! mcar Mar 2020 #137

DUers have types? NCProgressive Mar 2020 #131

Yes, there are different types of Democrats wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #151

"Types" is a divisive term NCProgressive Mar 2020 #152

No, people will still be offended wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #169

I have a question, if Bernie was elected prez this November, and if he is the nominee Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #180

Honestly, probably a while wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #183

By a while almost certainly not in his lifetime. I am a FAR left democratic socialist... Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #185

I don't embrace defeatism wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #186

Status quo? GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #187

The status quo made people pay for their COVID tests and care wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #189

Because of ACA the "status quo" is FAR better than what once was. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #191

Making people pay for their covid testing and treatment makes zero sense wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #193

What is more important right now Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #195

I can walk and chew gum at the same time wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #196

That is MADNESS what you just said, I GIVE UP, I QUIT Eliot Rosewater Mar 2020 #198

That trump is killing us is a given fact wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #199

Insurance or not, urgent care is not equipped to treat COVID-19 IronLionZion Mar 2020 #59

That was my point too. Kerrycrat Mar 2020 #66

Agreed, this is a problem of misinformation IronLionZion Mar 2020 #67

Here's an account where a person WITH insurance wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #153

"My primary doctor urged my wife to take me to the E.R., which she did." IronLionZion Mar 2020 #177

Just watch this segment on Nightly News where a COVID patient wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #103

Good luck with that IronLionZion Mar 2020 #110

Link? sheshe2 Mar 2020 #114

Different Urgent Care facilities have different policies. And those policies have changed.... George II Mar 2020 #118

He's also talking about something that happened once mcar Mar 2020 #128

Not all urgent care centers are created equal. Jedi Guy Mar 2020 #170

When did "health insurance" and "Medicare for all" become synonimous? beastie boy Mar 2020 #64

+1000 sheshe2 Mar 2020 #115

Bernie????????????? sheshe2 Mar 2020 #164

I can't imagine anything worse than M4A at this moment in history .... relayerbob Mar 2020 #65

+1,000,000 Thekaspervote Mar 2020 #70

Specious argument wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #71

It is. sheshe2 Mar 2020 #116

I'm betting there's more story to be told. tirebiter Mar 2020 #75

He died because of the republican health plan. Get sick and die. They are the ones wanting ... SWBTATTReg Mar 2020 #83

If he was 17 he's still on his parents policy. blueinredohio Mar 2020 #84

That "if" is doing a lot of work there wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #97

Just sayin how did they know for sure? blueinredohio Mar 2020 #111

Biden did not say that...he said a public option with subsidies will lead to universal coverage... Demsrule86 Mar 2020 #87

And neither will the public option wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #98

Conflating Universal Care, single payer and MFA, and you wonder why people grantcart Mar 2020 #90

Seriously, what? wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #154

Why Didn't This 17 Year Old Kid Have Insurance under CHIP Which is Free OR Obamacare Expansion Indykatie Mar 2020 #93

Obamacare doesn't cover undocumented immigrants wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #96

Build on what we have. A reach for the moon will slide us to ZERO. oasis Mar 2020 #94

Public option is also a moonshot for repukes wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #104

We can stand pat until we're better positioned. nt oasis Mar 2020 #126

Better keep the powder dry wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #155

The difference is Turin_C3PO Mar 2020 #127

And who are responsible for voting those Dems in? wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #156

That's about as craven as it gets. ucrdem Mar 2020 #95

"You have a single-payer system in Italy--it doesn't work there" wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #105

If we want to be the greatest country in the world this cannot happen. Tribetime Mar 2020 #106

Gizmodo? RandySF Mar 2020 #158

There's a video wellst0nev0ter Mar 2020 #171

Dem voters are practical and not magical thinkers Sunsky Mar 2020 #173

"World's Greatest Healthcare System" unavailable for comment ck4829 Mar 2020 #174

Horseshit! Jose Garcia Mar 2020 #179